This week on SalesTV.live as part of our SalesTV Spotlight on Mental Health in Sales we welcome Dr. Matthew Lampe, a Project Director at ScienceForWork and an Organizational Development Consultant. We will discuss Dr. Lampe’s recent article where he shares evidence-based research from Gayed and colleagues that reveals the significant impact of mental health training programs for managers.

Dr. Lampe will provide insights into how these programs enhance managerial knowledge, shift attitudes, and transform behaviors to create a supportive and stigma-free workplace.

In this episode, we'll ask -

* How does mental health training change managers' approach to supporting their teams?

* What are the benefits of providing managerial training regarding mental health?

* How can organizations measure the impact of managers’ mental health training?

With a Doctor of Psychology (PsyD) in Organization Development, Dr. Lampe specializes in applying psychological principles to organizational settings to foster cultural and systemic changes. Dr. Lampe's work focuses on individual and organizational growth through purpose, integrating evidence-based methodologies to enhance leadership and team performance. He has led significant projects, including designing people-centered organizational systems and co-producing learning guides for professional development.

Facts, the latest thinking, chat, and banter about the world of sales.

This week's Guest was -

• Dr. Matthew Lampe, a Project Director at ScienceForWork and an Organizational Development Consultant

This week's Host was -

• Rob Durant, Founder of Flywheel Results

This week's Panelist was -

• Adam Gray, Co-Founder of DLA Ignite

Transcript of SalesTV.live Mid-Day Edition 2024-05-14

Rob Durant [00:00:03]:

Good morning. Good afternoon, and good day wherever you may be joining us from. Welcome to another edition of Sales TV live. Today, we're discussing effective mental health strategies for sales leaders. As part of our sales TV spotlight on mental health Andy sales, we're joined by doctor Matthew Lampi, an organizational development consultant and project director at Science For Work. Doctor Lampi's recent article shares evidence based research that reveals the significant impact of mental health training programs for managers. He will provide insights into how these programs enhance managerial knowledge, shift attitudes, and transform behaviors to create a supportive and stigma free workplace. Doctor Lampi, welcome.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:00:58]:

Thank you, Rob. Thank you, Adam. It's great to be here. And, formalities aside, you're welcome to just call me Matt or Matthew, whatever you'd like.

Rob Durant [00:01:07]:

Thank you for that. Alright, Matt. So let's start by having you tell us a little bit more about you, your background, and what led you to where you are today.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:01:19]:

Sure. So, as you had mentioned, I have a background in organization development and organizational behavior. Spent about a decade working in retail sales, financial services, Andy independent consulting, working with organizations to really try to make work a little bit better, Aftering, gone back and getting the graduate degrees, being able to really apply what that organizational behavior, what the psychology and the behavioral science research talks about how people behave, how people act, and really what the workplace looks like. And so a lot of what I try to do is bring insights similar to today where we look at what the academic research says, what what's written in these very technical, journals and and articles and papers Andy bringing that to nontechnical audiences, finding a way to really bridge that and say, how can we apply this to really help make people's lives a little bit better?

Rob Durant [00:02:16]:

So you're dumbing it down for me?

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:02:20]:

That's that's that's one way, to to look at it. I choose to look at it as bridging the the, the academic with the practical.

Rob Durant [00:02:30]:

Alright. Thank you. So, Matt, let let's jump right into it. Let's clarify what is meant by mental health training for managers in the context of the article we're referencing today.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:02:45]:

Sure. So mental health training for managers really talks about the the type of support and the ways that, organizations can really provide knowledge and understanding and insight for their leadership Tim, managers, and, leaders really around what mental health looks like in the workplace, and and really quite frankly what it looks like outside of the workplace because it's it's a part of life. How you can get a better understanding of what it is and and really build practical steps to be more cognizant of it, incorporate into the way that you coach, the way that you set expectations and targets, the way that you really develop your people and your teams. I used to think that the the concept of work life balance sort of gives this this false idea of you have your work life or you have you have work, then you have life, and work is work, life is life, and the 2 never interact. But the reality of it is, and especially over the last few years, we've really seen that it it's a blend of the 2. And so being able to say, well, compartmentalize and say, well, I'm gonna leave my work ideas at work and my home ideas at home isn't actually that easy to do if at all. And so being more aware of that and providing those managers that training, that development opportunity to really be more cognizant, more aware of how mental health impacts Andy the role that it plays in the lives of your people, in your teams, in your organization. It can it can have, when fostered and developed with benefit, beneficial support, it can have a tremendous impact, positive impact.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:04:32]:

If it's avoided, if it's, disregarded, you can see a lot of the challenges that organizations may start to face. And quite frankly, a lot of organizations have faced. And over the last few years has been a great example of when you prioritize mental health for your people, it can have a positive impact on how your business operates.

Rob Durant [00:04:55]:

So just to make sure we're clear, we are not talking about having sales leaders or leaders in general provide any type of mental health counseling, and we're not talking about mental health counseling for the leaders. We're talking about what exactly?

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:05:17]:

Great clarification. Yes. That is that is correct because, you know, to to to bring in a a movie quote with great power comes great responsibility. And if you expect your managers or you you give a false idea to your management team or to organizations that your managers must now provide that mental health training or that mental health counseling, that can potentially have long term damage versus benefit. The idea here is is really to have your organization invest in supporting your managers in their ability to recognize mental health concepts and aspects for the benefit of their people. Providing the resources to say here are things that here's what to look for. Here's when you see these behaviors or these concepts, here are resources that you can use to help support your people in that moment. Here are the professionals to which you can refer.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:06:15]:

That's a huge piece there. And and, you know, making sure that the idea here is not about training your managers to be mental health experts. It's training it's providing your managers the resources and the knowledge to help find and identify mental health resources for their people. And being able to recognize here is a time, here's an opportunity where my Andy my my team that I'm leading, my sales people or whatever it might be. Here are some some, I've noticed some different things Andy so maybe we have conversations in our 1 on ones or in our check ins. And being able to recognize Hughes a point where in that conversation, I need to defer to the experts because it becomes something greater than what I can or really should be expected to do as that manager.

Rob Durant [00:07:09]:

Got it. Now in the research that you were sharing, you identified, some ways that mental health training changes managers' approaches. How exactly are managers' approaches changed regarding supporting their teams after this training?

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:07:30]:

Sure. So effective mental health training can enhance, you know, it can enhance the manager's understanding and the knowledge, the awareness, to throw in you may be able to tell, I like to throw in different quotes, different places. There was a a US military person who at one point had said, you don't know what you don't know until you don't know you know it. And in a similar concept, that manager training can enhance that knowledge and bring to recognition managers, interactions that they may not have been aware of or they may not have seen through that perspective of mental health. And so that mental health training can enhance that knowledge. It can foster empathy and encourage change in the way that they interact with their Tim, where they create more of a supportive, and inclusive workplace. And, really, it can also lead to that stigma free workplace. And so when we talk about mental health, being able to reduce that stigma, being able to share, openly resources and the opportunities to to better ourselves through that mental health through those mental health experts.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:08:44]:

The the mental health training really for managers is about being more cognizant, more aware of all those different pieces, and how they interact together to look at something in isolation versus to look at something as a system as a whole. And it's it's crucial for organizations to be able to provide, again, provide their managers, not necessarily with the training to do the the the mental health counseling or whatever it might be, but provide them with the resources to where they can direct their people for more information Andy really be advocates for that.

Adam Gray [00:09:19]:

Isn't there Rob, obviously, this week, you know, we're we're focusing on mental health. So we're all thinking about this perhaps more than we might otherwise do, certainly from a sort of academic and a process perspective. Aren't most of these problems solved just by people not being assholes to each other though, in the broadest possible sense? You know, because and in fact, there's there's there's a great there's a great movement in the UK. A guy called Sam Alex Cornyff wrote a book called Be More Pirate. And one of the cornerstones of that is the no asshole rule, you know, where if you have someone that's like that in the organization, they need to get out of the organization because they're doing damage. And isn't a lot of this kind of, aren't aren't we avoiding a lot of these challenges by people just being nice. You know? I look at you and and, you know, you're struggling a bit today, and I sit you down and go, is everything alright? And you say, well, I'm really struggling with this matter. Hold on.

Adam Gray [00:10:17]:

Let let me get you a bit of help for this. And and if people behave that way, we wouldn't be having this week, would we?

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:10:25]:

I I think the no no asshole rule is a great rule for organizations for actually, let's take it outside of business. Let's just say in life in general. Right?

Adam Gray [00:10:35]:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:10:35]:

Just be kind to one another. But part of that mental health part of men, manager training regarding mental health is, well, what if you have that employee who who doesn't necessarily demonstrate that they are struggling or that they, you know, you just in your example, you say, hey, I know you're struggling. Let's talk about it. What if that person is not giving those demonstrating those behaviors that are easily recognized. What does it look like when those managers get that additional training to say, here's what some of those behaviors are that aren't necessarily surface level noticeable? Yeah. And so you have, for example, let's let's take a Alex, since this is Sales TV, let's take a sales example. You have a salesperson who, over the last few months, you've noticed their numbers have slightly dipped, but not extensively. They're still hitting their targets or they're they're about average, but but you're noticing, that maybe their, their attention or their focus, The effort just isn't what it what it was.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:11:40]:

There could be a variety of reasons with that what what what causes that or what leads to that, what what influences that. It's the manager's ability to have those conversations when it's not necessarily directly noticeable right in front of them. Andy, you know, the other thing going back to that that separation of work and life and the reality that that's not really the case, Take a take a salesperson who has a sick child at home, you know, a a toddler at home that's got the flu, but has that that person still has to come into work. I would be I I would challenge somebody to say, oh, no. Their their life outside of work is not bothering them right now while they're at their job at their desk doing their job. It absolutely does. And having that the manager training to be more aware of how different factors Andy different aspects of life can influence people inside work. It can influence their behavior, and without proper support, without proper addressing or or resources available to foster that that person's personal and professional development, you know, some of the some of the factors that could lead you could you could start seeing organizations that start having retention problems or start having, you know, their productivity starts dropping.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:12:56]:

And when times are good, mental health training, mental health resources may not always be the top of mind because, hey, everything looks good right now.

Adam Gray [00:13:05]:

Mhmm.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:13:05]:

But in a challenging environment, especially let's take for example the last 4 years over over the Andy, during those challenging times, the organizations and the leaders and the managers that really focused and prioritized mental health, they weren't necessarily experiencing that that resignation, the retention issues. They weren't feeling they they didn't have to the same extent, a lot of the challenges other organizations were facing at that time. And it's not about dealing with mental health in a reactive state. Gray now, this is a challenging Tim, so we have to deal with this. It's about creating that type of environment ongoing and all the time for the benefit of your people in good times and in those challenging times.

Adam Gray [00:13:48]:

Right. That makes perfect sense.

Rob Durant [00:13:53]:

Bob Britton, asks, the concept of mental well-being being a positive factor for businesses seems overtly obvious. My sense is that few companies walk this talk. Why? What, in your opinion, is the roadblock here preventing this?

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:14:14]:

Oh, that's a great question, and I can think of a couple different roadblocks. One that comes to mind is goes back to just sort of a lack of of awareness or understanding. What why should I focus on this? Why should I allocate resources? If I'm the business leader, what's my what's my benefit to doing it? Yeah. It sounds just it sounds great to be positive and to to have healthy, practices, but what's it what is it what's the bottom line? Right? And so being able to understand, what is it that motivates behaviors of those leaders and of those organizations for somebody or for for teams that say our priority is to make money. And, it, you know, if it's gonna cost us something, we're not necessarily gonna or we're gonna be hesitant to look at it. I would challenge and say rather than looking at its cost, look at it as a return on investment. And there are studies out there that actually show when you invest in effective mental health training, the benefits to your organization, it it can reduce some of the expenses. You know, we already talked a little bit about, like, for example, retention.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:15:21]:

But it can also improve productivity, effectiveness, organizational culture. All these other factors can all be benefit it can be benefited and improved. And so to the question, you know, what why aren't more organizations doing this? I think if I had to to narrow it down to something, I would say it's a combination of lack of understanding of what do I need to do, but also how do I do it. And the the fun thing about this is that that that those questions, those answers are still being explored and and uncovered. Andy in a sense, it's a little bit of trial by error, and I don't mean that just to take mental health lightly. I'm not saying trial by error for mental health. Not at all. What I'm saying is being able to reach reach out to those experts who know mental health, programs and services being able to partner with them to Gray, how can I bring more resources, more awareness to my organization to normalize this because the reality of this, we all have, mental health affects everybody, and some more than others? But being able to have those resources, those benefits, the, the experts available to help navigate Andy guide and and develop that skill.

Adam Gray [00:16:43]:

I I guess that having having a clear road map, because, conceptually, we all grasp these things. You know, a a good mental health across your entire workforce Andy supporting people when when they need extra support is, blindingly obvious. And Tim not a big set of dots to connect to work out that when people are happy, they're gonna be more productive and more effective within their role, as well as spreading cheer amongst the organization. And when they're unhappy, that can become problematic because that unhappiness can spread and, you know, poor feeling and all all of that kind of thing. But I think, like, with a lot of these things where, you know, the concept is very easy to grasp, the execution of that is sometimes extremely difficult because I I know, yeah, well, you need to call in a professional that can help this person. Okay? But where? Where do I find that professional? Who is that professional? What are they gonna do? What's the overhead look like in terms of cost and time? And and is this a quick fix or is this an ongoing fix? And do other people need to benefit from this? And all of those things. And, actually, that kind of road map is crucial, isn't it, for organizations to actually know these are the steps you need to go through.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:17:52]:

Right. Right. The, you know, the what does the action look like? What is the how do I do this? What does that kinda look like? It can be, it can start with something as simple as mirroring the behavior that you're wanting to encourage for your employees. And so taking your your PTO, every organization, almost every organization has some sort of PTO, whether it's sick time, vacation time, whatever however you wanna allocate it, separate it out. But recognizing the the benefits, maybe taking mental health days and saying, hey. You know what? It's been we've been we've been really pushing to hit our our, quarterly target. And maybe that that week or 2 after that deadline, take a day or 2, and encourage your your team to do the same. And if you plan for it and you're proactive around it, you can do it where it has it doesn't have a great impact on the operation for the organization to continue to, to do what needs to get done day to day.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:18:55]:

But what it can also do that moment of of pause and refresh for that individual. I mean, how many of us have taken a day off Andy it's like, I I just I feel refreshed. Yeah. All I needed was a day or 2. Something as simple as that, which is already built into organization's expenses, being able to allocate that time. That's a great place to start. When it comes to the specific training for managers, really focusing on evidence based. You know, there's a lot of, there can be a lot of programs and and sales people out there that that Gray, use this program, follow this model, and it'll work exactly the way you want.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:19:35]:

Reality is let's look at the evidence behind it. Let's look at did what does this actually do? What does this actually, demonstrate, and how can we build it effectively? Working with those resources to again, starting with just that basic understanding of what does the step one look like? How do you eat an elephant one bite at a time?

Rob Durant [00:19:57]:

Yeah. You alluded to the ROI. So I'm going to ask, what does the research say? What are the benefits of providing managerial training regarding mental health?

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:20:13]:

There are lots of benefits to the organizations, to the managers, to the teams. As we've talked about, you know, it can boost that knowledge and that awareness around what mental health looks like in the workplace. That I think is one of the the biggest benefits is just having that increased awareness, recognizing what your team members, what your people may be experiencing, and and what those behaviors that they're exhibiting, what that might communicate. Being able to ask those questions with a curious and open mind. Another benefit is that it can able it can enable effective responsive and proactive support. When you start to see different behaviors or different interactions, asking those questions Andy then encouraging the starting with something as simple as take the afternoon off. You know what? Don't worry about today. Go enjoy a 3 day weekend.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:21:04]:

Really take time for yourself or whatever it may be. The other another benefit is that it can shift those perspectives and reduce that that stigma. For so long, mental health has been something that doesn't seem to be talked about enough. And we talk about the ROI for businesses when they, you know, to offer, for example, gym reimbursements, or programs to to promote physical health. Right? Mental health is right there with that. Why why aren't we including that in those conversations? And I think that we are doing a good job of starting to include that more, but there's tremendous opportunity for that to be, to be even greater. And really, you know, having those conversations, having that increased awareness starting with those small steps, those small recognitions, the small behaviors, and then building upon that really can transform that workplace culture Andy the and the teams. Again, I go back to the example of in in good times, people aren't necessarily looking to leave their company in challenging times.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:22:06]:

If your organization is not one that you feel supported, you're likely gonna jump ship. And so for an organization from a from an ROI perspective, how much money does it cost when you're when you have to replace somebody? Now there's things studies out there that show it can take anywhere from 3 to 9 months of salary for that individual to get a new person in place, get them trained, get them up and running, and get them back to that level of the person that you lost. Abbott what if you could have avoided that? What if you could have built that workplace culture that supported those individuals that in those challenging Tim, they say they have the perspective, you know what, I'm gonna hang on Andy we're all in this together versus the every man for themselves Andy they're jumping off ship. So really the the empowering managers through mental health training really can have so many benefits to organizations, to managers, and to the Tim, that if if you start somewhere, even if you're not sure is this the right place to start, my my perspective is there there doesn't have to be a one right way. Any action can lead toward toward that conversation and can lead towards those transformative benefits.

Rob Durant [00:23:15]:

And how does an organization measure those benefits? How how do they measure the impact of managers getting this training on recognizing mental health?

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:23:30]:

Sure. You know, the, the article the, research article that we originally started talking about, One of the things that that they really advocate, that the researchers really advocate, is measuring ways that you can measure that is really through your, is through talking with your employees. Find out from them, you know, what is, what does support look like for them? What does, what what what is it that they're looking for? And also when you start to look at if you're just looking in addition to talking to them and you're looking at your your product, you can measure it with productivity, you can measure it with retention rates, you can measure it with employee satisfaction and engagement. All sorts of different ways that you can really measure this to see how are my employees doing. My my preference is to start with just asking the question. Asking Tim, where can we do better? What can we do as what can I do as your manager, as your leader to better support you? I can measure it with all these different things, but if I start with that question, it's amazing. I I it's amazing the information that you'll get, and and, you may not get it with every employee. But if you start to ask that over time, you start to demonstrate this is the type of manager, the type of leader, the type of organization we want to be, we'll start to grab onto that.

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:25:00]:

People will start to share, and that conversation can start. And then that's where you can learn. It's really just listening to your employees.

Rob Durant [00:25:06]:

Fantastic. Andy just like that, our time is up. Matt, this has been great. How can people learn more? Where can they get in touch with you?

Matthew Lampe, PsyD [00:25:18]:

Sure. LinkedIn is probably the best way for people to, to connect with me. Definitely, I I'm active on on LinkedIn and would love to to engage in more conversations. Also, Science for Work, if you check out science for work.com, we have a lot of different blogs, a lot of different, articles on a variety of topics. Really, again, connecting the the research and the evidence based insights into practical application. And we'll be coming out with a podcast soon with Science for Work. Abbott, as far as connecting with me, definitely check out LinkedIn.

Rob Durant [00:25:52]:

Alright. Thank you. We now have a newsletter. Don't miss an episode. Get show highlights, beyond the show insights, and reminders of upcoming episodes. You can scan the QR code on screen or visit us at sales tv.live Andy click on newsletter. This has been another edition of Sales TV live. On behalf of the panelists, and everyone at Sales TV live, to our guest, to our audience, thank you all

#MentalHealthAwareness #SalesLeadership #HR #Sales #Pipeline #LinkedinLive #Podcast