This week on SalesTV.live, we're diving deep into the state of sales development coaching with insights that challenge the status quo and shed light on transformative strategies. Our special guest, Kevin Beales, Founder & CEO of MySalesCoach, joins us to explore the critical findings from the recent "State of SDR Q4 2023" survey. With a staggering number of SDRs feeling under-coached and the direct impact of high-quality, frequent coaching on performance and retention illuminated, we're set to uncover actionable paths forward.

In this episode, we will address question like:

* With less than 10% of SDRs finding their role 'very fulfilling', how can we enhance job satisfaction and engagement?

* Given that 28% of SDRs report never receiving coaching, what strategies can we employ to bridge this gap?

* How does coaching impact SDR retention?

* How can Sales Managers implement more impactful coaching?

With a background deeply rooted in sales performance technology, Kevin, alongside his co-founder, identified and addressed the critical gap in sales coaching. Kevin brings an unparalleled depth of expertise to the sales coaching realm, leveraging his extensive background in sales performance technology to revolutionize how sales professionals receive personalized, expert coaching.

Join us live for a dynamic exploration of this insightful research and be part of the discussion.

This week's Guest was -

• Kevin Beales, Founder & CEO of MySalesCoach

This week's Host was -

• Alex Abbott, Founder of Supero

This week's Panelist was -

• Adam Gray, Co-founder of DLA Ignite

Transcript of SalesTV.live Early Edition 2024-05-21

Alex Abbott [00:00:01]:

All from your your guidance there, Adam. Obviously. Yeah. Good morning, and welcome to another episode of sales TV live.

Adam Gray [00:00:11]:

Thank you. Exciting episode of sales TV.

Alex Abbott [00:00:15]:

Exciting episode for many reasons. 1, because we've got you on the show, Adam. And another is we have our special guest, Kevin Beals, who we'll introduce in a second. I'm your bearded sales guy coming to you, streaming to you from the Algarve in Portugal now, my new home. And so, yeah, let's do a round of of intros. So I think everybody knows you, Adam. So should we start with Kevin?

Adam Gray [00:00:44]:

By all means.

Kevin Beales [00:00:46]:

Alex, great to be here again, and thanks so much for inviting me back. Yeah. So I'm I'm Kevin Beals. I'm the CEO and founder of my sales coach. So we match people to the perfect sales coach for their journey and their role to support them as a, a one to one coach. And, yeah, excited to be here today to talk BDRs.

Alex Abbott [00:01:11]:

Fantastic. Fantastic. Yeah. I think last time last time you were on, we spoke about the survey that you'd done, the state of the BDR industry. Yep. And I think, towards the end of that show, we were asking ourselves a question. Is there a future for BDRs? But before before we go there, Adam, tell us about yourself.

Adam Gray [00:01:36]:

Good morning, everybody. I'm Adam Gray. I'm cofounder of DLA Ignite. I guess we are the the world's largest social selling consultancy. Yes. So delighted to be here.

Alex Abbott [00:01:50]:

Welcome. Welcome. It's great it's great to be back on the show. I feel like I've been away for for ages. Although it's It

Adam Gray [00:01:57]:

does feel like a bit of a hiatus, doesn't it?

Alex Abbott [00:02:00]:

Yeah. Yeah. As you know, I've started, a track with doctor Grant Van Albrecht on on sales transformation. But anyway, I'm back today. And, what better topic than, is there a future for BDRs? I think it's, I think it's fair to say the job is harder than ever. And whilst, you know, businesses have often put, you know, their most junior people in a role that is arguably one of the hardest roles in sales, we now find ourselves in a position where we're questioning whether or not there is a future for BDRs. So, you know, to kick us off with a question, what do we feel the life expectancy of BDRs are today?

Kevin Beales [00:02:55]:

And do you mean life expectancy as how long that role lasts as opposed to how long someone lasts in that in that role? Like, how long does the role of BDR there?

Alex Abbott [00:03:05]:

Good question. Good question. My I was thinking the former. How long will that discipline, that role last? Yeah. But it's it's also another good question that you posed, Kevin, that we can perhaps get to.

Kevin Beales [00:03:19]:

Yeah. Yeah. So, well, I mean, I think, yeah, first of all, we have just setting the scene. We have this perfect storm going on right now that is threatening the, you know, certainly what has been the role of, of a, of a BDR was, you know, organizations who are striving for sales efficiency, needing ROI, the end of growth at all costs, all of those, all of those things, The role of a BDR, as you say, is becoming tougher and more challenging, and therefore, results are becoming harder to come by. You're also being pressed by the mass automation and AI that is making channels more difficult and more difficult to, to, to, to make channels and outreach successful. And then even when you create opportunities in a world where people are being more efficient with their cash and budgets Andy, those meeting to deal ratios are becoming, com, com compressed. So you're all of this creating this perfect storm where, yeah, if if you're striving for sales efficiency, does do the economics of a of a of a BDR make sense anymore? And I think, you know, certainly from the the rhetoric that we hear from many organizations, certainly what worked before is not gonna work in the in the future Andy is not going to be sustainable. So, yeah, we're seeing, you know, the this change and this rebirth and, you know, lots of talk of things like going from armies to SWAT teams, the the bar becoming higher, and having, yes, smaller, better supported, better trained, better resourced teams, rather than, your large numbers of people.

Kevin Beales [00:05:24]:

To your question of how long does it last, I think, yeah, I think it is an evolution rather than a death of this role. I don't think the role of a BDR dies, but it definitely evolves and evolves quite dramatically Gray in a way that I think has quite profound, impact on, on the whole profession, because let's be fair. We've gone through a whole generation where people arrive in sales through that role. People learn their skills through that role, and we've had quite large volumes of people in growing teams coming into sales through that role. And as that changes as well, I think that has quite a profound impact way beyond BDRs, which you can maybe talk about. So, yeah, I I don't think we're talking about the depth, but I think we are talking about dramatic changes. And those changes are happening now Andy, you know, are are gonna continue, especially as the rise of AI and AI tools becomes, you know, a bigger part of this, equation as well. Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:06:29]:

So why why do you think it's not going to die? And and the and the reason I ask that is that from the customer's perspective, if I'm a buyer, I want to deal with a salesperson. Yeah. I want to deal not with somebody that can sell me something, but somebody that can solve my problem. So you're you're an experienced sales expert in this product area. You understand the dynamics of your product. You understand how your product needs to be implemented. You understand how this solves my challenges, and you've probably got some experience of my industry, so you understand what my specific needs are around this. I can understand why even though salespeople are not the most popular people for buyers in many cases, I can understand why the buyer would want to talk to a salesperson.

Adam Gray [00:07:23]:

I can see no opportunity as to why a buyer would want to talk to a BDR. But your job is quite literally a fluffer, isn't it? You know, your job is to warm up the the, the prospect before the prospect is passed on to somebody that knows what they're talking about. Now I'm being deliberately damning in the language that I use there. Yeah. But from I I get it from the company's, perspective. You know, you're a salesperson. You've got a 6 figure salary. You're a BDR.

Adam Gray [00:07:54]:

You've got a 5 figure salary. Well, it's an order of magnitude difference. Clearly, I'm gonna get more of the cheap the cheap seats. But from the buyer's perspective, I can see no rationale for why they would want to deal with the BDR at all.

Kevin Beales [00:08:08]:

So let me push back slightly there, Adam. Sorry. Please. Please. I do totally, I do totally get the point. And I, you know, I get the point now who, who is looking forward to, the, the the the cold call or the, the outreach that they're gonna, that they're gonna get in the next half an hour. But, again, this is, I think, where the that evolution of a a higher quality, a lower pool, but a higher quality of BDR does become, effective. Because, you know, whilst we might all talk about we want to, research ourselves and find the right solutions.

Kevin Beales [00:08:45]:

And obviously, you know, we're we're again in a world where it's easier when we get further down the buying journey, when we're, researching ourselves From an organization's perspective, we want to connect and have connections with qualified people whose problem we can solve. And I think, you know, you touched on that. Like, a BDR cannot necessarily isn't necessarily the person that's going to solve my problem, but they're perhaps the person that's gonna make the connection and identify that I have the problem. Maybe the problem that I'm not aware of always top of mind right now, maybe the problem that I don't know that there are solutions out there for, they're gonna make that connection and start that conversation. And, you know, that's what obviously yeah. That's what great BDRs do today. The bar becomes Hughes. Like the bar becomes Hughes.

Kevin Beales [00:09:43]:

The, you know, I I want to make, you know, that that connection is with more qualified people who have that, Rob, whether they're aware of that or, you know, or or not. Maybe there are signs of intent in things that they have done. Maybe there are signs of intent in their role Andy activity. And Andy the whole conversations again are becoming smaller volumes of conversations, smaller volumes of outright reach, but much more considered, much more personalized, and much more Abbott, to your point, solving problems. And that BDR is effective as the person who can start the conversation between

Adam Gray [00:10:27]:

an BDR. Isn't that BDR a salesperson? So, when I worked with Alex at Oracle, Alex did exactly that. He would reach out to customers. He would have a conversation with the customers. He would identify their problems. He would say, because I've spoke spoken with 20 different companies in the last month who look just like you who are having these problems, this is how that looks like they're solving them. And they'd say, so how do I configure this bit of software? And Alex would say, I I need to call in my, my presales expert that can show you how the product actually works from an operational perspective. And they'd say, well, how do I roll this out across the organization? And Alex would say, well, I need to speak to one of my consulting experts that will show you how you do the organizational change around this product.

Adam Gray [00:11:13]:

So this sounds to me like what we're looking to do is to find skilled salespeople, but not pay them a sales salary, to pay them a BDR salary.

Kevin Beales [00:11:25]:

Yeah. So the the let me come back to the, the, the paying there. And I think, you know, part of the challenges we described at the top of the show is that we bring in the most junior people to do perhaps what's the hardest role. I don't think it's unfair to describe it as the as the hardest role here. I think the flip sides and the challenge to to all use in a perfect world, do we have 360 degree salespeople who are capable of prospecting, of creating pipeline? And I'm a, you know, a huge advocate of everyone should be selling and prospecting in, in sales. That is part of the job and is part of the job for for anyone at any level. Andy, again, maybe the days where I can be an AE or a BDM and just expect my calendar to be filled by BDRs or marketing are also gone. And, you know, so the the prospecting is part of everyone's job, you know, in, in the, you know, in this future, future state.

Kevin Beales [00:12:36]:

But I think going back to, because it's so hard because it is time consuming, it is time consuming to find those great fit to to research, to to prospects, to personalize, Andy create pipeline from, from from that prospecting outbound. What we're not expecting is our, is our account executives, our BDMs to be spending all of their time doing that, a proportion of their Tim. And should they be more experienced and better at that? Yes. But I think, again, the economics become even more challenged for us as organizations if we then have, people on higher salaries of more experienced spending significant amounts of the Tim, creating pipeline because the economics just just become even more challenged by, by by that.

Adam Gray [00:13:32]:

But as the buyer, I don't care, do I? So so so I I think what what we're seeing potentially is that we've got as a buyer, I deserve a fully fledged salesperson engaging with me rather than a BDR. I've got no time for Rob BDR because I want somebody that can actually answer the questions, not say it. I'll go away and find the answer to that. So isn't the BDR role transitioning from somebody that does cold calling and cold emailing and meeting setting into somebody that does desk research and analysis Andy then hands that folder full of Hough, here are 20 companies that you might want to talk to, Kevin. All of them seem to fit your ideal customer profile for people that you seem to be getting traction with at the moment. I mean, I I had a conversation with a a sales leader who worked very closely with his BDR, the salesperson who had who worked very closely with his BDR. And I said to him, who's better at converting a conversation into pipeline? You or your BDR? And he said, me, obviously. Okay.

Adam Gray [00:14:49]:

How many conversations do you get to have as a team? How many do you get enough? No. So why would you squander those few that you get by giving them the first contact to somebody that isn't as credible as you. That's not criticism of the BDR because this is a young, inexperienced, hungry person. Abbott, surely, you know, because the the challenge for every organization is not closing. It's having conversations with somebody that you can then close. So when you get one of those rare conversations with someone that is a good fit, that might be interested, that is in the the right sort of buying cycle at the moment, surely, you want to maximize the chance by putting your best players on that, not your trainees.

Kevin Beales [00:15:35]:

You you do. So let me let me take maybe 2 parts of the answer to that. So, again, I think another thing that is becoming far more predominant now is those qualified marketing opportunities, those inbound opportunities. In the past, they may have gone straight to a BDR or a BDR team who goes through perhaps that more frustrating qualification for you as a buyer where you're not necessarily, getting the value that you need from that individual. You feel like you're being qualified rather than, valued. Yeah. Is is yeah. Is being shared with you.

Kevin Beales [00:16:18]:

That I think is changing. And I think because marketing budgets are going down, cost of, marketing leads is going up to your point. Do you wanna squander those opportunities with someone who through no fault of their own, is the most inexperienced seller in the organization, then I think the answer is increasingly no, and you're seeing that that dynamic change. But back to your point of, like, yes, definitely. A big part of the role is that that research and that, and that personalization and that identifying of, you know, of potential good fit opportunities. But you're not necessarily gonna hand that on to your BDM or account executives because there is because at that moment in time, that's just, you know, that that's just a hypothetical here is some research that shows this individual, this organization may resonate with the Rob, and I've got some reasons to believe they may resonate with the Rob. And we may be able to have a a valuable conversation both for them and for for us. I don't think as a seller, the role of a sorry.

Kevin Beales [00:17:30]:

As a buyer, sorry. I don't think as a buyer. The role of a BDR done well is a negative experience because you're not expecting to pick up a cold call and to have half an hour's conversation about how this integration might work, how this problem has been solved for other people, what you're not expecting that in-depth conversation. You're basically identifying that there was a reason to have that conversation with a qualified person. There is a reason why a problem that I might have may be solved by by a solution that I may or may not be aware of Andy the timing of which, makes it a worthwhile investment of of my time as a buyer, and obviously as, as as sellers as well. And it is that that qualification piece. I I don't therefore need to be frustrated that I have a BDR that is at the start of their career Andy, and can't have that fully fledged conversation because that's not when I want to have that fully fledged conversation yet anyway. They're just setting the scene for that, making sure that that's a valuable use of, of my time as a buyer, as much as my time as a, as a seller.

Alex Abbott [00:18:50]:

We've got we've got an interesting point here from Javier. By the by the way, not all BDRs are young and inexperienced. It depends how you build your engine and structure. I find having a balance in experience creates more credibility within the team itself. Javier, it'd be good to know if you're, a BDR or or a manager of a BDR team when you reference the engine and the structure. And I think what's interesting as I listen to the tennis match you you you guys are having is, you know, is this conundrum that we're that we're experiencing between, you know, the search and qualify method or model within businesses, you know, looking for the 5% of people that might have a problem that you solve versus what I think where Adam is going with this in terms of taking that more relationship first approach with not just the 5% of the territory, but but the whole territory. So when there is a need, you know, the the the buyer is more likely to, to share, to share more, you know, with with the with the BDR or whoever it is to your point, Kevin. I think about having a prospecting culture, but it doesn't that then shine a spotlight on the strategy and moreover, the approach.

Alex Abbott [00:20:20]:

So, you know, when when we say when I say strategy, one might think, well, sales strategy, but actually a typical sales strategy is and marketing strategy is based on searching and qualifying and actually with with the with the height and thickness of the zones of resistance our buyers are putting up. Do, you know, do we even call it a sales and marketing strategy anymore? Or should we call it a relationship building strategy?

Kevin Beales [00:20:49]:

Well, I I think it's, you know, it is about building a relationship, but again, with the with the right people. I just wanna pick up on maybe something that, you know, that from Javier's, point as well. I think, you know, it's a, you know, a very fair point that not all BDRs are young and experienced, but I think that has been the predominant Abbott of the market. And it comes back to a point you made earlier, Alex, that, you know, you have that inexperienced and and and and frankly, less well pays, less, is is that starter salary that has been that BDR role within a lot of organizations that's maybe made it into that, first time role into that inexperienced, seller. I think again, one of the things that I, that I can see shifting and changing is as we go from that Gray to that SWAT Tim, is that it perhaps challenges that these don't need to be inexperienced people coming into sales for the first time. They don't need to be our least well remunerated, team or our least well, trained team. And maybe coming back to Adam's point that the expectations of the conversation that I may be able to have as a BDR will also go up as part of that. But I think, you know, that's where the shift from growth at all costs.

Kevin Beales [00:22:22]:

Let's build big BDR teams. Let's hire people that are inexperienced. Let's pay them an amount of money that makes that that model work, is now all being challenged. And and I think, you know, that is part of that evolution Andy, you know, a good point.

Adam Gray [00:22:38]:

I think I think that's really important because when you were describing how the BDR approaches me Andy we have our first interaction at a point when they're setting the scene, you know, you painted a picture which is, actually perfectly Gray. You know, perfectly reasonable for that to be your assumption as the salesperson. And for me to go, actually, I had a really nice interaction with this person. You know, so I'm I'm perfectly happy with that. I think that that in my experience, in the experience of the majority of people who have been sold to, that's not what they receive though, is it? What they receive is a hideous experience by somebody that doesn't understand anything, and it's a waste of everybody's time. And I think that you nailed it when you said, we need to throw away this concept of that's not exactly what you said, but I'm paraphrasing. Get rid of this concept of building big deep BDR teams where it's growth at any any price. We hire it, low cost, low value, low experience people, and we just get them to throw mud at a wall.

Adam Gray [00:23:44]:

And instead, we make this a super skilled finessed role where people superpower is on having that first conversation with people. And we hire people that are brilliant at that rather than just someone that isn't yet fit to be a salesperson. And I think that's a that's a a massive shift, though, isn't it? Massive shift.

Kevin Beales [00:24:07]:

It it's a it's a huge shift because I think the other thing that has happened that has been counter to, to what you've just described there, but not necessarily for the right reasons is that everyone has been sold. Or I say everyone in so many organizations, the dream is sold on come in, do your time as a BDR, and then leave that for another role often within 9, 12 months in, you know, in, in some organizations of, you know, your first introduction to sale Andy it's it's been created as almost like a Abbott of passage. If you come in, do this role, and then you go on to something else. And it's like, it's the stepping stone that everyone just has to, has to take. What is not seen as is a career opportunity, an opportunity where you can grow both personally and in salary and remuneration, and can you make that a longer term part of your, of, of your career? It's been just positioned as this stepping stone as this, the shortest possible period of time that you can step in and out of being a BDR as being aspirational, which is then, you know, Rob one for another Tim, created a whole, generation of perhaps people that then weren't ready for that next step, weren't help be prepared for that next step, who were then thrust into the the the world of, you know, owning a quota and living or dying without having necessarily really had sufficient experience Andy sales experience to be prepared for that moment.

Alex Abbott [00:25:46]:

Yeah. Now, look, with 1 minute to go, and I've got Rob Durant ringing in my ears saying, keep it to 26 minutes. Keep it to 26 minutes. So, in fact, it feels like we're just getting going. So with 1 minute left to go, what should we be measuring in terms of helping BDRs improve performance? Right? Should it be activity, or should it be based on relationship strength with target audience? 30 seconds from each of you.

Kevin Beales [00:26:20]:

I'll I'll jump in first, Adam, and then love to hear your your view. So it's not activity. You know? It's like, yeah, this is becoming more creative. It's becoming more around research, having the right highly personalized conversations, using the social tools and the, the dark social to make sure that you're spending time with the right prospects in the most creative ways Hughes great copywriting and all of those things. It's not about activities that could be measured like they once a lot once upon good, send this many emails, make this many dials, and, you know, and expect this many results.

Adam Gray [00:26:57]:

Yeah. Yeah. I I think I I kind of agree with you. I think the problem is that things like, yes, you want to measure strength of relationship and stuff like that, and that's difficult. It's a difficult it's a it's a very subjective measure. You know? I you you're my best friend, Kevin, and you say, actually, I can't stand you. You know? So, actually, there's there's often a disconnect between my view of it and and yours as the recipient. Yeah.

Adam Gray [00:27:22]:

I think though that we need to be careful that the leading indicators that we measure are indicators that actually are pointing in the right direction. Clearly, calls that have a next action, a positive next action, are the key determinant factor here. But in order to get there, we need to be clear that we understand what are the levers that we pull that drive that outcome. Now it will be in part some of those metrics that, that are out of date. So how many outbound things do I do? Whether you do it by telephone, by email, or by social Durant matter, but you have to do some. But it isn't just about those, you know, so it has to be those that progress that progress that progress that ultimately convert into business. And I think that when people are able to tie that entire journey together, that's when you're able to say, okay, to get the right number of meetings and the right number of things that we we close at the end of it, I need to do x of these. Because the reality is that doing 10 x of them and getting 10 times as much business as you can handle out the back end is valueless.

Alex Abbott [00:28:26]:

Yeah. Yeah. And and on that note, we're gonna have to cut it there. Thank you, gentlemen, for a wonderful discussion. I feel like we could definitely

Adam Gray [00:28:34]:

Thanks, Kevin.

Alex Abbott [00:28:34]:

Thanks, Alex. Not to. And we didn't even get to your post about Tyson Fury. No.

Adam Gray [00:28:40]:

God. We I said we should have started with that, didn't I?

Alex Abbott [00:28:44]:

Thank you, Javier, for your comments. Until next time, we'll see you on sales TV. Well, this afternoon, if you're dialing in this afternoon. Otherwise, it'll be next week, next Tuesday morning. Or if you're available on the 6th June, at, 1 PM, we have, sales transformation part 4. Until next time. Take care. Bye.

Alex Abbott [00:29:09]:

Bye bye.

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