Even as AI in sales accelerates and buyers expect deeper expertise, faster answers, and more meaningful conversations across every stage of the sales cycle, Sales Leaders are under pressure to deliver more revenue with fewer resources.

In this episode of SalesTV, we are joined by James White, a seasoned sales practitioner and coach who has spent decades helping B2B teams convert interest into committed opportunities in complex selling environments. We will explore what the future of sales really means for Sales Leaders who are responsible for building teams that can thrive in 2026 and beyond. We’ll discuss how technology is reshaping the moments where human judgment, sales capability, and emotional intelligence matter most - in the middle of the funnel where opportunities either progress with momentum or quietly stall.

We’ll ask questions like –

* How can we develop the soft skills that matter most in the middle of the funnel?

* How can Sales Leaders prepare sellers for the parts of the sales process that AI cannot do?

* How can Sales Leaders help sellers read tone, emotion, and buyer signals more effectively?

* How can Sales Leaders train teams to listen, adapt, and probe in real time?

With more than thirty years of experience across software, IT, and service based businesses, James White has built and led sales organizations, coached founders and front-line managers, and developed practical frameworks for improving conversion throughout the buyer journey. Through his work with high value B2B service companies and his own outbound teams, he has seen first-hand how changes in buyer expectations, sales technology, and economic pressure are reshaping what effective selling looks like. His combination of operational experience, sales coaching, and behavioral insight gives him a grounded, reality-based view of what will matter most in the future of sales.

Join us live and be part of the conversation.

This week's Guest was -

• James White, a seasoned sales practitioner and coach who has spent decades helping B2B teams convert interest into committed opportunities in complex selling environments.

This week's Host was -

• Rob Durant, CEO of US Operations at The Institute of Sales Professionals

Transcript of SalesTV.live Mid-Day Edition 2025-12-09

Rob Durant [00:00:02]:

Hello and welcome to another edition of Sales TV Live. Today, we're exploring why human skills will define the future of sales. We're joined by James White. James is a seasoned sales practitioner and coach who has spent decades building outbound engines, designing sales processes, and helping B2B teams convert interest into committed opportunities in complex selling environments. Through his work with high value B2B service companies and his own outbound teams, he has seen firsthand how changes in buyer expectations, sales technology, and economic pressure are reshaping what effective selling looks like today. James, welcome.

James White [00:00:52]:

Lovely to have. Thank you for the invite. Rob. Great to be here.

Rob Durant [00:00:56]:

Love to have you here. Thank you. So, James, let's jump right into it. You said that the middle of the funnel is where soft skills matter most. What is it about the middle of the funnel that makes soft skills so decisive? And where are you seeing sellers struggle most in those conversations?

James White [00:01:17]:

Okay, so let me, let me, let me, let me take the second part of that. So, so if I talk about what I mean by middle of the funnel, the middle of the funnel for me is when the leads come in. It's then how do you engage with that first conversation? Maybe it's top of funnel, but sort of move into the middle. But it's that element of being able to have a conversation with someone in the right way. And the mistakes that I see a lot of people make are that there's an assumption a lot of the time that the people they're talking to, whether they're inbound leads or outbound leads, are, for want of a better phrase, really wanting to do business with them. And it's as if there's this perception that because they've agreed to have a meeting with me or they've asked to have a meeting with us, they're a done deal. They're a slam dunk before we start. And I think one of the things that great salespeople do is treat every lead as a new clean slate and have a conversation and utilize their skills to focus on understanding first about the audience and the buyer and who they're talking to and what's driving that whole conversation, and then to be in a position where they can then shape the conversation one way or another.

James White [00:02:25]:

It may well be that it doesn't go right, in which case it's not for them to. It's not for them. Or it may well be that it is for them and there's an opportunity to develop further time and effort into it. But yeah, I think human skills to be able to spot those Signs with people are the bits that are the most important part of selling. Right. You get that wrong, you lose more often than you win. But you get that right, you can save yourself time, energy and emotion and also.

James White [00:02:54]:

Make sure you protect your own brand and the way you do things as well. So, yeah, I think it's the most important part of the. Obviously we've got to generate the leads, but I think it's one of the most critical parts of the selling process.

Rob Durant [00:03:05]:

I would agree completely. So in that context, how can we develop the soft skills that matter most in the middle of the funnel?

James White [00:03:15]:

So look, I think how can you develop them? The first thing I say to salespeople I work with is know yourself who you are. So I think self, I think to know other people, you have to know yourself and what your style is and what you're good at doing. And when you understand yourself. And one of the things I do a lot of courses around disc profiling for salespeople. So I talk about the four colors, the red, yellow, blue and green. Once you understand the style of person that you are, then you can start to also understand your audience and who you're trying to engage with and what that sort of looked like. But I think that the challenge again, that a lot of salespeople have is they're one-dimensional. They focus on one approach to engage with someone.

James White [00:04:00]:

And actually you can't be that one dimensional. If you're dealing with an economic buyer who's an accountant, for example, or a cfo, they're far more likely to be a bit more reserved and a bit more, a bit calmer, a bit more guarded. They're going to be a bit, they like getting blood out of a stone. They're harder to engage with. So therefore you've got to adjust your approach. Whereas if you're dealing with a, let's call it a CEO red, who is potentially going to be quite direct and to the point what they want, you've got to adjust your style with that. So for me, being able to know yourself is critical. And then to be able to start to understand the different types of people you're working with in your, you're talking with to then know how to approach it.

James White [00:04:40]:

Because if you get that bit wrong, you're going to lose. You know, you start, if you're an effervescent, bubbly salesperson and you're dealing with a CEO or. Sorry, sorry, an accountant, CFO or engineering director or something like that, that's quite calm and measured and doesn't want to give much away. Your OTT approach is going to basically put them off. So you know, you've really got to adjust your skills and your style alongside it and how to do that. As I say, start by looking at yourself but also start reading up in some great videos shared on my channel around the different styles. Start being curious about the people you talk to. Look at the people you engage with.

James White [00:05:16]:

What's their initial engagement? When you first have a jump on a call with them, are they quite calm and reserved or are they quite friendly and outgoing? That sometimes is a good starting point to see. So I think it's just have been self, you know, I talk to people a lot about having the emotional sales intelligence to be self aware, look at who you're engaging with and what sort of style of person is that and then start to adjust your approach based around, you know, what you get, what information you gather from that conversation.

James White [00:05:41]:

Based.

Rob Durant [00:05:41]:

On that emotional sales approach. How can sales leaders help sellers read tone, read emotion, understand buyer signals more effectively?

James White [00:05:52]:

Great question. And the honest answer is they can provide some training for them on how to do it. So soft skills can be trained. There are a number of things, for example, I always say to people, you know, if someone, if someone's doing that in a sales environment, you know, and doing that, what does that mean? Well, you know, there are people that are experts in people science that will tell you that indic they're thinking, but they're also feeling vulnerable. So therefore you can utilize your next, your next conversation. Next point to that person might be different than if someone's doing that and sitting in a room and being quite defensive. So being able to sort of train and give people those understanding of those skills, but also being able to pick up on what they're not telling you or the tonality of what people say. So there's a great study by Albert Morabian a number of years ago that talked about the success of a communication.

James White [00:06:41]:

And 7% of it is only in the words and the other 93% is in what we say and how we say it. So if you can start to train people on to look out for certain signals in certain calls and certain discussions and to be self aware to spot things then. And that comes from sometimes mentoring, listening to calls, being on calls with those salespeople to see how they've done it and then going back at certain points, that's a great way to start helping them build those softer skills that can enable them to get things right. And look, by the way, I'VE seen sadly, so many sales people in so many sales situations. Kai Bosh a deal by just not judging the situation properly or understanding the scenario. They push when it's not ready, when the prospect's not right to push. And they'll say, oh, well, I'll be told, I've always got to always be closing or always push to the close. There are some times where you need to lose the battle but win a war.

James White [00:07:36]:

So you're better off to step back and to let that person do their thing rather than to be this desperate, pushy salesperson that then, then doesn't get the, that doesn't get the result. So, yeah, look, in terms of leadership, I think the first thing my question to him is if they're not providing that support themselves, invest in some, some trainers, whether that's through people like myself or other people out there, to give that support and, and skills and then to practice it. Practice scenarios. One of the things I do with a lot of sales teams I coach and work with is we practice scenarios, we practice different ways of people being in a certain situation to know how to react and to respond. And practice, I'm a big believer is a massive factor that's underused in lots of sales teams. A lot of leaders don't do enough. Set those sessions up and enable your team to practice with you and their colleagues. That's the only way they're also going to get better.

Rob Durant [00:08:27]:

So if human skills are defining the future of sales, is there a space for AI in that process?

James White [00:08:36]:

Yeah, massively. Look, you know, AI is, is good. You know, it's not going away. It's, it's a massive benefit to so many salespeople in terms of things that it can do to help them save time. And.

James White [00:08:52]:

You know, I think, you know, if I look at a sales example of, you know, what someone can do in the middle of the funnel, you know, if you're meeting with a prospect, you know, you could ask, you know, your, your, whatever, your, your, your AI tool to give you a summary of information on that person, what that information they can find. Right. So as a good example, I always talk to people about being prepared for a first sales call or sales conversation. Especially if you're selling into business-to-business environments, you're probably going to enter with multiple people so you can get AI to create you a summary of the types of people. What's the background of Rob Durant that I'm meeting today? What was his? Where was his previous career? What was he involved in? What was. Yes, and, and the good. The elements around, you know, the tools out there, if that information's there, then it will go and pull that together. So I think, you know, using AI smartly is the.

James White [00:09:35]:

Is the. The way I describe it to people is AI is like a sous chef. It's not the fault. It's not the chef that's going to cook, send the meal out and to make sure that the meal is perfectly cooked, but it's the chef that can cut the vegetables and make sure that everything's done and prepared ready for the chef to then do their work. And I think that's how I see AI at the moment, operating. I don't think in time, AI is going to probably do a lot for a lot more. It may end up being.

James White [00:10:02]:

It may end up taking all of our jobs. You never know. But I think for the next five to 10 years, the one thing I don't think a robot can do is be. Is going to be able to be able to judge a human being and really what's going on in that person's mind and what's going on in their world. I don't think a robot's going to be able to do that like a human can, if trained and told, you know, shown how to do it for some time.

Rob Durant [00:10:26]:

So I want to pick up on that. That robot theme. How do I ensure my sellers show up as human rather than scripted or robotic?

James White [00:10:37]:

And that's a great question. Again.

James White [00:10:41]:

It comes down to two things. I think there's some basics that they've got to have in place. And I always say to people, you know, when you watch, you know, George Clooney or, you know, Anne Hathaway or, you know, any of these great actors or actresses, they don't sound scripted when on the film. They don't read out the words as if to say, this is a script they've practiced. They know what they're going to say, and then they apply their skills to be able to utilize that. Those words in the right way. So I think that what we've got to get salespeople to do is understand the basics of what they've got to share, what they've got to do, what is the phrases and scripts or outlines that they've got to use. But then how can they then start to deliver that in a way that sounds personable? So that's the first thing.

James White [00:11:27]:

And that again comes back to practice. And then practice repetition over time enables you to feel comfortable to say things. And then when you know how to say things, you can then start to elevate certain words within that conversation. I think the other part of that is also to understand that I believe every person you engage with in a sales conversation is unique and different. There's a story, there's a journey that they've had. So just be curious, you know, be curious about the other side, not about what you know is my message to salespeople at the moment. I, I say this time and time again to people. Buyers don't give a monkey's backside for you and what you do and who you are.

James White [00:12:01]:

Even though you might think they do. They, they don't care for that. What they care for is what impact can you make in their world, what problem can you solve for them, what challenge can you take away from them, what goal can you help them achieve? And if you can show those elements, then people will and show that you're truly interested in them, then they'll start to have conversations with you. But, you know, if you, if you start to just be this robotic, another, another one, another one, another one, another one, then I think ultimately you're going to. Who wants to be treated like that? I don't think buyers want to be treated like that.

Rob Durant [00:12:35]:

No, I would agree completely. So then how do we differentiate our outreach? So it doesn't sound like every other message to every other prospect or more importantly, so it doesn't sound like every other seller out there?

James White [00:12:51]:

Yeah, look, and I think that's a really great question again. And one of the, one of the key things that I talk about is there's two things that I think that happen with that. First one is make your outreach slightly more personalized. And that's harder. Right. Because when you're trying to engage with a large volume audience, and we all know outreach and outbound prospecting, you know, you've got to kiss lots of frogs to get prince and princesses. So the challenge to do that. But one of the things that, you know, I encourage people to do is to really identify their audience, who they want to work with and why they're a good fit for them, and what problems they can solve for them and then really start to go in with value over a period of time consistently across other meters.

James White [00:13:31]:

So my approach that I will work with sales teams will be, okay, let's say we've identified 100 people that we think are a perfect fit for what we do. We know the typical challenges that they have. So, okay, let's identify a campaign over a period of, let's say, three months, six months where we are interfacing with that person through call, potentially, but through email, through social media, through video prospecting. So utilizing videos like Vidyard or Loom to do video prospecting, direct mail, I still think lumpy mail has a massive role to play in this even. And then obviously voice noting face to face. So how can you build a campaign that shows that person that you're not being stalky, but you're interested in them, you've seen what's going on in their world, you understand their situation and what's happening, and you're at least able to see that this is what they've done and how they've done it. And there is a balance between not being OTT with that, but doing enough to make people realize that.

James White [00:14:35]:

They know that the prospect knows that you've had a look at their. Not just briefly looked at their LinkedIn profile, but you've really had a look at some of their content that they write or some of the videos that they share or what blog they have created and start to open up conversations around those things and start to open up dialogue around that. And that's where I think the people that get success in outreach are using that sort of personalized approach to try and open up a door. Once they open up the door, they then start to become curious around what that person's doing and how they're doing it.

Rob Durant [00:15:03]:

So what about the sellers who are struggling? How can sales leaders identify sellers who are struggling with emotional intelligence skills? And what can they do to help them?

James White [00:15:17]:

Great question. So the honest answer is firstly, and I don't think this is done often enough anymore, listen to us. If you've got a salesperson that's struggling. I did this actually today with one of my team. I have a team of outsourced. We provide outsourced salespeople for organizations. I had one on my team who was, you know, I think has been struggling to engage with a certain type of audience. And I asked him today as to what challenges he'd faced.

James White [00:15:41]:

And he said he's dealing with an objection of people saying, I'll talk to him after Christmas. So I said to him, okay, well, we need to listen to that call and those calls. And he sent us through a few calls for us to listen to. And I'll listen when I'm in the car, I'll listen to a few of those calls and I'll be able to automatically sense, okay, from the reaction that he's getting. How can he handle that objection better? So firstly, sales Leaders have got to provide some support and help to their team. I think one of the things I see a lot, actually, is that sales leaders demand a lot, but don't give a lot back. And the challenge around that is, you know, if you're not giving to your team with that time and knowledge and experience of, you know, to review a call or to sit in on a meeting with them, how are they going to learn? I guess the other thing I'm also looking for if I'm a sales leader with those type of salespeople is what are they. Is that.

James White [00:16:26]:

What is that person doing themselves to get out of their rut? What are they doing to change? Is it something that they've just accepted and, you know, they're just carrying on mundane sort of everyday, you know, as it was? Or are they trying to learn? Are they trying to show that they're trying to develop those skills again? I had two guys in my team and I said to them, you know, you know, what. What have you been learning around the industry and the situation and the circumstances and the prospects you're talking to? What. What do you know? And both of them said to me, not, we haven't learned that much. And I'm like, well, that's not acceptable. They're dealing with IT directors. I said, your job is to know what's going on in the brain about IT director. So. So it's about their attitude to continue to pick up all those things, but also the support and help to.

James White [00:17:11]:

To develop them and to engage in them. I think it's really important. So. So. But yeah, look, I think those are the things that I think are key. And then the final element to me is also about this, is expectations. So what are the expectations of the sales leaders?

James White [00:17:26]:

You know, very often I think sales leaders have an expectation of numbers to be at a certain level, but yet they've never done those numbers themselves. So my challenge to sales leaders is, okay, don't just tell people how it's done. Show them how it's done. You know, I will pick up the phone, I will talk to you. I will do any meeting with sales team I need to, because if I can't show my team how it's done, why should I expect them to do it themselves? I think sales leaders think that job's beneath them a little bit now, which they. I think they need to get sometimes back in the trenches. And there's nothing better than getting a salesperson that's struggling to see their leader, you know, help them out in that situation. If they're the right type of character and they're the right type of person, like things I've talked about, they're going to want to then put that effort into to try and change their situation.

Rob Durant [00:18:10]:

I heard you say that sales leaders demand a lot but don't give a lot. And you gave a little bit of an example around that. Do you have a tick box list of things that you would expect sales leaders to, to regularly give to their sales representatives?

James White [00:18:32]:

Yeah, I think, I think, I think I have a list of stuff to them to give. One of the big things I say, Rob, that I don't think most sales leaders do is take time to understand the people that work with them. So, you know.

James White [00:18:50]:

I learned this from sport and I've worked with some, some, you know, worked or worked, I say work, been involved with some sporting organizations, with some leaders in managers and coaches in that space who, you know, have understood that, you know, in order to be able to get the best from someone, you need to understand their situation. Now, I'm not saying you want to have, you know, war and peace on, you know, that person's problem with their family or whatever else, but you do need to understand their drivers and what motivates them. There's no successful sales teams. I've had where we've created vision boards for the sales team, where we've outlined what they want to do, what they want to earn, how they want to achieve things over the course of the next couple of years, how they can put those elements in place. And then, you know, I've challenged and, you know, challenged those, those people to say, okay, right, this is your vision, boys, not mine. What can I do to support you to make that happen? What do you need from me? And I'm going to then create what I call a contract between the two of us that says, here's what I'll provide you to get there. Here's what I want in return. I want that learning, I want that self development on that commitment to getting better.

James White [00:19:48]:

So I think having that conversation in the first place and trying to, if I ask sales leaders right now, how many of them know their team really well and what's going on in their world and what's happening, not sure I'd get, you know, some of the answers that I would probably. And I say not when I say, you know, know them well, really just don't just say, oh yeah, I know they've got a wife and two kids, but know about their kids. What, what you know is that is their kids, you know, are their kids, you know, playing sport, are their kids in school, you know, facing challenges of education, is their wife going through a difficult or husband going through a difficult time in their role. All of those things affect the salesperson and can affect them to do things. So I think becoming that, that sort of personal approach. But then I use a simple method called Mist Rob, which is to motivate, you know, to inform, to support and to train. And I think for me, you know, those are the four things that, you know, motivate, give them that support and that motivation, that belief, that belief. They can inform them, communicate about changes in the business or what's going on and make sure you're, you're keeping communication lines open.

James White [00:20:52]:

You know, support is about, like I said, listening to calls and attending call, you know, meetings with them and train them, Give them the expertise, give them the knowledge. If they haven't got that, then give them some help to become better.

Rob Durant [00:21:04]:

I love it. Missed. Okay, James, if you were to emphasize the one thing you would want our audience to take away from today's episode, what would that one thing be?

James White [00:21:20]:

Build emotional sales intelligence.

James White [00:21:23]:

And the five factors within those that to ensure that you waste less time and bring more deals through. If you become emotionally sales intelligent and are able to really think like your buyer, then you can win lots of deals and save yourself a lot of time in the process.

Rob Durant [00:21:44]:

Oh, I love it. And you said there are five elements within that.

James White [00:21:49]:

Yeah, so five elements. So Daniel Goleman, when he created the concept of emotional intelligence, created five elements. So self awareness. The ability to know what's going on around you, to spot, okay, well, what's happening here? That person's scrolling on their phone, they're bored, they're tuned out and engaged with that. Self control. The ability to keep your mouth shut sometimes or to not react and respond in certain ways. Motivation. The ability to.

James White [00:22:11]:

What I call your why. What's your reason to get up in the morning? What's your reason to do something? Socialization. The ability to build relationships and to build networks and people around you that you can do business with. And the final one, which is probably the most, I think probably one of the most important is empathy. And I think sellers need to, especially in the human world, put yourself in the shoes of your buyer. Sit there and think about how your buyer is operating. What are the things that are going through your buyer's mind? Your job, you know, your job as a salesperson is to be a fly on the wall in their brain. Okay? To be a fly on the wall in their brain.

James White [00:22:45]:

What are they thinking? What, what's their worries? What's their concerns? What, what are they worried about? What, what are they happy about? What are they nervous about? What are they comfortable about? Become a bit obsessed by what? Trying to work out what's going on inside their brain and, you know, and what's in, you know, what it feels like from their perspective. And if you do those, do those five, if you can develop those five skills.

James White [00:23:07]:

Then I think you'll go a long way.

Rob Durant [00:23:10]:

Fantastic. James, this has been great. On behalf of everyone at SalesTV Live, to you and to our audience, thank you for being an active part in today's conversation.

James White [00:23:24]:

No, you're welcome. Very welcome.

Rob Durant [00:23:26]:

Awesome. If you like what you heard today, please take a moment to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Substack or YouTube. Let us know what you learned and what you'd like to learn more about. Your feedback helps us reach more people like you and fulfill our need to elevate the profession of sales. Thank you all and we'll see you next time.

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About SalesTV: SalesTV is a weekly talk show created by salespeople, for salespeople. Each episode explores sales, sales training, sales enablement, and social selling, bringing together sales leaders, enablement professionals, and practitioners from across the globe.

About the Institute of Sales Professionals: The ISP is the only body worldwide dedicated to raising the standards of sales. Its Sales Capability Framework, certifications, and member community are designed to address their one goal: To Elevate the Profession of Sales.