SalesTV.live - Sober Sellers Sell More

Sales has long embraced a culture where drinking played a central part - from President’s Club celebrations to client dinners to Friday happy hours. But how does a culture of drinking impact those who opt out? Marin Nelson, Co-Founder & CEO of Sobrynth and former Salesforce executive, challenges the status quo, arguing that a sober approach to selling might just be the ultimate performance hack.

"We don’t have to get rid of the parties. We don’t have to get rid of the trips. No one’s proposing that. This isn’t the prohibition movement, but it is about offering people choice."

In this episode, we'll ask:

* Has drinking become an unspoken requirement in sales?

* How does a drinking culture impact sales performance?

* Who else in the workplace is being impacted?

* What can companies do to foster a recovery-friendly workplace?

Marin Nelson has spent over 15 years in enterprise sales, leading teams while championing conversations about substance use awareness in the workplace. She has seen firsthand how shifting the conversation around sobriety transforms both lives and businesses. As the driving force behind Soberforce at Salesforce and now the Co-Founder & CEO of Sobrynth, she has helped companies create spaces where choice defines the culture.

Facts, the latest thinking, chat, and banter about the world of sales.

Come and join us for some lively discussion and debate.

This week's Guest was -

• Marin Nelson, cofounder and CEO of Sobrynth

This week's Host was -

• Rob Durant, Founder of Flywheel Results and CEO of US Operations at The Institute of Sales Professionals

Transcript of SalesTV.live Mid-Day Edition 2025-02-18

Rob Durant [00:00:02]:

Good morning. Good afternoon. And good day wherever you may be joining us from. Welcome to another edition of SalesTV.live. Today, we're discovering why sober sellers sell more. I'm joined by Marin Nelson. With over fifteen years in enterprise sales, Marin has seen firsthand how shifting the conversation around sobriety transforms both lives and businesses. As the cofounder and CEO of Sobrynth, she helps companies create spaces where choice defines the culture, arguing that a sober approach to selling might just be the ultimate performance hack.

Rob Durant [00:00:43]:

Marin, welcome.

Marin Nelson [00:00:45]:

Thank you so much. It's great to be here. Appreciate it.

Rob Durant [00:00:50]:

Marin, let's start by having this tell you, or rather having you tell us a little bit more about you, your background, and what led you to where you are today.

Marin Nelson [00:00:59]:

Sure. Yeah. I love try I love wrapping this up, and then whatever we'll see whatever I share today for what is my journey. So hi, everyone. Marin Nelson. Thanks for joining. And, I've spent my career, as you shared, Rob, in the intro in enterprise sales. I actually started out in nonprofit health care before going into enterprise sales, and so this all feels very full circle.

Marin Nelson [00:01:22]:

I've always been really interested in, health care for marginalized groups and stigmatized disease conditions. And I, myself, am someone in long term recovery, so this May will be twenty years sober of sustained recovery. And it plays in because, basically, it means my whole career has been sober, and so it's provided me a unique experience of what is it to navigate spaces where we center on alcohol a lot in the workplace, whether that is in nonprofit health care or in IT or in real estate. It really is everywhere, and so figuring out how to, be a part of while also not participating in, the happy hours. But being there, right, and figuring that out has been a journey. I spent five years as a leader at Salesforce after ten years in health tech startup world. And, while there was, had the opportunity to cofound a group called Soberforce, and it was a sober employee resource group. So for sober, sober, curious, sober allies.

Marin Nelson [00:02:23]:

And we had 500 employees join us in five months' time, and that was this big of, like, oh, I think we've really landed on something that is missing that really resonates with a whole bunch of people with different lived experiences. So whether they were, sober because they simply felt better and produced better when they didn't drink, or they're someone like me who are in recovery and participants of 12 step meetings, or a family member, a mom of a teenager struggling looking for support and community and how to have a conversation. And that led to my cofounding and now leading Soberanth, recognizing we have this huge gap in the employee benefit marketplace around substance use disorder and sober curiosity in the workplace. And yet most people who are struggling with substance use disorder of the forty six million, seventy percent are in the workplace. So we have this massive population who's struggling in silence, who doesn't have clear, care navigation pathways or conversation support in the workplace today, and we wonder why we're in an accelerating health care crisis with this disease state. And so that's that's what we're trying to disrupt right now with Sobrent.

Rob Durant [00:03:33]:

Thank you for that.

Marin Nelson [00:03:34]:

Yeah.

Rob Durant [00:03:35]:

So I wanna jump right into the topic of today's discussion. Let's start with this. Has drinking become an unspoken requirement in sales?

Marin Nelson [00:03:46]:

That's a really powerful question. I think it's perceived that way by many. And and I saw that from, people who would participate in sober force and were younger would say things like, I knew my career. I always thought you had to drink to be in sales. Now Salesforce wasn't saying that to anyone. No boss was saying that directly. But I think when we default to alcohol being the way in which we connect with customers or connect with our team members or celebrate our wins, that can be an assumption made very easily. Right? And so this is where visibility of sober sales leaders is really important.

Marin Nelson [00:04:25]:

I'd say visibility of any executive position. But in sales, we cofounded this group with four sober sales leaders. And so just by standing up and saying, hey. I'm one of those people, those people, right, in recovery, this is what someone who's sober looks like, Just smash stigma and made it okay for younger people entering into sales as a career to go, oh, I didn't realize I could reach that level and not drink. And so now you're telling me that the only reason you got there is because you don't drink. You know, thanks thanks for showing me that.

Rob Durant [00:05:02]:

So how do you say no?

Marin Nelson [00:05:05]:

How do you say no? Yeah. You know, it's so funny. It's been, it really depends on the moment of what I answer and how I say no thanks. So, it has ranged everything from, oh, no. I'm good. Thanks so much. Like, I'm just gonna have the sparkly water. Or if I'm really pressed, I say, actually, you know what? I don't drink.

Marin Nelson [00:05:28]:

I'm sober. And for me, like, claiming it has actually given me a tremendous amount of strength and power because it just makes it a non it's not a conversation point. Right? It's like, this isn't up for discussion about me drinking with you. I don't drink. And sometimes you have to be that firm because what I've experienced is generally, the people who push me the hardest to drink probably are wondering about their own drinking, and it makes them uncomfortable to be in a space with someone who's not. No one else cares. I mean, the only times I've ever been pushed on it have been the person who then later circles back and says, you know, I kinda wonder if I'm drinking too much. Can I talk to you about it? So, anything from, oh, no.

Marin Nelson [00:06:09]:

I'm good, or, oh, you really don't wanna see me drinking. I've said that before. This is me sober. You don't wanna see me drinking, actually. No no one benefits. Yeah. And then, you know, if you don't wanna it it by the end of the day, it's your story. So you don't owe anyone an explanation, I think, is the other important message.

Marin Nelson [00:06:30]:

You get to say what feels right to you, and it's really no one else's business. So if you wanna make it their business, you can, but you don't have to. You don't owe it to anyone.

Rob Durant [00:06:40]:

The episode for today is called sober sellers sell more, and it's based on a, as you said, cheeky article you wrote for LinkedIn. Yeah. Okay. I love it. Give me cheeky. What do you mean by it when you say sober sellers sell more?

Marin Nelson [00:07:00]:

So here's what I started to notice in conversations that Sobrynthh is having, which is around, hey. Guess what workplace? One in ten employees are actively sick with untreated substance use disorder. We're talking a lot about people who are actively in need of help, which is a really important conversation. But what I noticed was, why aren't we talking about the twenty one million who are in recovery, who are occupying very senior level positions at very large companies making huge impact? Why aren't we celebrating the sober sales leaders? The reason why this Fortune 500 company is growing 30% year over year maybe is influenced by the fact that some of the people at the very tippy top are sober. And so can we flip the script from this is a problematic again, I'm using quotations. Right? Because of stigma that we put on this disease state, we treat it very differently than we treat cancer and heart disease and diabetes, and it should be treated the same. Can we instead lean into, holy moly, look at how productive our sober people are? Look at how much our sober sellers attain quota. And we only will start to recognize that when we create a conversation in the workplace where people who are sober feel safe saying I'm sober.

Marin Nelson [00:08:13]:

But I can tell you the conversations that I have with sober sellers will go something like this. I never hit quota before. I got sober two years ago. I've made President's Club both years. Or I was a top seller in my sales organization once I got sober. And some of these voices are very public on LinkedIn about these stories and some are behind the scenes telling me in private, but it is a for sure clear trend and not surprising. If you get healthy and you are well, you have so much to think about. Difference between being hungover versus being fully rested and present mind, you're gonna be way more productive.

Marin Nelson [00:08:52]:

So, of course, you're gonna have better results whether in sales or any other career. You're gonna have better results. And your bet and your workplace is gonna benefit from that. So I just love for us to shift into a celebration of sobriety versus a perception of this is a problem we have to deal with.

Rob Durant [00:09:09]:

It's interesting that you bring up president's club. Before I was sober, I didn't hit president's club. Now that I hit now that I practice sober lifestyle, I am, making it to president's club because there are two times in a salesperson's calendar where it drinking and sales are pretty much synonymous. One being president's club and the other being sales kickoff. What alternatives can companies offer to create a more inclusive social culture where sales and drinking are not synonymous.

Marin Nelson [00:09:53]:

Yeah. You're so isn't that funny? Like, congrats on hitting presence club because you got sober. Now we're gonna send you a trip that's booze filled. Good luck staying sober through that one. Right. Oh, and by

Rob Durant [00:10:05]:

the way, we're going to New Orleans doing a Mardi Gras.

Marin Nelson [00:10:08]:

Correct. Yeah. Congrats. Yeah. You know, I had I've definitely had a lot of sober sellers reach out and say, like, I'm feeling pretty conflicted. I don't know that I really feel safe going on this trip, but, like, I earned it. So I feel like I should go, but I, you know, I don't know how I'm gonna navigate this. So I appreciate the question of, like, how do we make it more inclusive? And we're definitely not the alcohol police.

Marin Nelson [00:10:27]:

I am not here to push a prohibition movement. That is not what this is. But this is about how do we work with the events and marketing team to create inclusive, recovery ready workplaces. And so part of what Soberth does is work with these companies to look at the culture. How do we celebrate? How do we reward? How do we incent? And are are gathering spaces like sales kickoff and president's club inclusive for everyone? And that means your sober sellers who made president's club is do we have choices? And it can be as simple as offer a really cool mocktail. You're gonna find out that a whole bunch of people who actually would normally drink opt out of drinking because they're like, I feel better when I don't, and I just don't need to drink again at 2PM in the afternoon. Like, I'll but I want a fun drink, so, like, give me a cool mocktail with really good juices. There's so many creative options now with mock tails.

Marin Nelson [00:11:18]:

Like, it's everywhere. It's when I got sober, it was like, do you want diet coke? That was the extent of it. Now there's, like, high end, alcohol free wines and cocktails. The other thing I would say is find ways to help your sober employees gather and find each other. And so part of also what we do at Soberth is creating sober employee resource groups. So those groups then, what we would do at Salesforce is we would create a meetup. Hey, sober force team members. We're meeting up at lunch on Wednesday at 12:00.

Marin Nelson [00:11:48]:

Come find us at this location. Slack me if you can't find me. And we would all gather and meet. And it was like this little secret club that no one else knew why this group of individuals was sitting together at lunch, but it was the support that we needed. Some of us have been sober a really long time. Some people were like, this is my first sober trip ever, and I'm sixty days sober, and I'm a little freaked out. And that gave them the confidence to say, I know I'm not alone at this conference, and I know I can go find Marin at the concert tonight, and I can get sober through this. And that is a game changer.

Marin Nelson [00:12:20]:

Right? The difference of an employee staying safe and being productive and present for that event versus an employee being at risk for drinking when it's not safe for them to drink.

Rob Durant [00:12:33]:

I think I can guess at some of these, but what do you see as some of the hidden costs of a drinking culture in a sales environment?

Marin Nelson [00:12:47]:

So so much. Okay. Well, I can tell you that the data shows that, an individual who's suffering from substance use disorder costs a company $8,500 more per year than an average employee, and I think that's probably understated. So everything from a really high ticket claimant, I I don't like going out for inpatient care. That's a pretty expensive treatment pathway. And if you wait long enough for substance use disorder, that might be the only pathway you have to take to treat it. It's about productivity. We had members of our group who were self reporting that they were spending five hours a day trying to navigate treatment pathways for their kid.

Marin Nelson [00:13:29]:

So it wasn't even their own drinking, their own health, but the absenteeism resulting from a loved one who they're worried about and not feeling like they had any other pathway to go. Insurance can't answer the question. EAP couldn't answer the question, and so they're trying to figure this out on their own. So these are the things that sobering really leans into is to say, hey. This is money you're spending whether you realize it or not in the workplace. You're spending it on lost productivity, lost presenteeism, turnover of your employees, people who say, I don't know how to navigate anymore with my drinking. I'm just gonna quit. Or return to office mandate and this person has escalated and accelerated their drinking during COVID and it has continued to accelerate, right, going back to an office doesn't feel like an option.

Marin Nelson [00:14:15]:

So there are a lot of hidden costs, that don't show up in claims like a diabetes would, but it's absolutely there. The numbers that are most recent is that it's costing our economy $431,000,000,000 a year. Wow. That's a massive number. Right? So it's, we have a lot of work to do. We have a lot of work to do in bringing awareness and starting to have this conversation.

Rob Durant [00:14:42]:

So help me get a a better picture of this. Who else in the workplace is being impacted besides the person who is, struggling with recovery or alcohol?

Marin Nelson [00:14:56]:

Yeah. So the numbers are for, from Kaiser Family Foundation that two and three families are impacted by substance use disorder. So it is hitting it is rare to meet someone who does not have a story. Everyone has a story. Everyone has a family member or a friend who has struggled or is now sober or who they lost to substance use disorder. We just, because of stigma, haven't talked about it. We've we've treated it as an outside issue or a personal problem, which means that we've kept the conversation in the dark, which means people are left to try to figure it out on their own, which is next to impossible. And so when I compare that to you know, we look at the treatment rates of the of the forty six million who have substance use disorder, only six percent sought treatment in the past year.

Marin Nelson [00:15:48]:

For diabetes population, fifty percent sought treatment in the past year. So those are the comparison points I like to make to say, this is a disease, and we only have six percent getting help. That's not okay. We have to do better. Right? And where do people look for help? Well, if they're in the workplace, they look to their benefits. And if it's not clear where they can go with their benefits, then they're doing the five hours a day on their own trying to figure it out and not doing their job, which impacts their performance.

Rob Durant [00:16:19]:

I heard you say this is not, the prohibition movement. We are not the, sobriety police or alcohol police. So how can organizations create a recovery friendly culture without alienating employees who choose to drink?

Marin Nelson [00:16:38]:

Totally. You know, I think this is around, creating a conversation and creating, points of gathering in the workplace that are inclusive. So, again, the options. Right? The, the unrecognized harm that happens when you host team happy hour at a bar and there isn't another choice but water. Right? So that's unintentional harm happening. Creating events that are only in spaces like bars where your employees don't feel safe going. That's unintentional harm. There's a lot of people opting out of these networking events because they don't feel safe being in that environment.

Marin Nelson [00:17:18]:

And so that isn't, that isn't meant to say that you can never have wine served, but maybe you can do it at a bowling alley, like an adult arcade center, where there are other things to do other than just stand around and drink. Right? And so this is around, recovery ready workplace means that we're creating spaces where we are mindful that not everyone drinks for lots of reasons. We had a lot of people in our group who were Muslim, who didn't drink for religious reasons, who were pregnant, who were on certain drugs that they couldn't drink on, who were sober curious, who just wanted to drink less because they recognize they don't feel really great and they're not producing very much, you know, when they're drinking. So, it is not here to say we're better than you or shame on you or any of that. It is just to say, if you're struggling or if you're curious, you're safe to explore that here. And we're not gonna ask you to go show up in places that feel unsafe to you.

Rob Durant [00:18:18]:

So what can companies do to prevent a stigma around sobriety in the workplace?

Marin Nelson [00:18:25]:

Yeah. So a lot of the work we do at Sobrynth is that culture change partnership with HR, and they involve things like, finding an executive who will tell their story. We had a company whose head of operations, reporting direct to the CEO, shared his sobriety story as part of our rollout in our cultural toolkit of how do you change into a recovery ready workplace. Part of that is supporting an executive and telling their story of sobriety, and there's always one. So people will sometimes say like, how are we gonna fight this executive? I'm like, just ask the question. At your leadership meeting, I guarantee someone's sober in the room. And we have yet to have a problem with some raising their hand. People just haven't been asked before.

Marin Nelson [00:19:04]:

There hasn't been a place to say the story. And so the power of that executive saying their story immediately smashes stigma and immediately says, you are safe to to claim this out loud. It's not gonna jeopardize your career. Look. I'm standing here. I report to the CEO, and I'm telling you my sober story. And the outpouring of, gratitude that that got, HR was floored by. They're like, we never hear anything when we send out notices to our employees.

Marin Nelson [00:19:34]:

It's like a black hole. In this communication, we got flooded with positive messages back and people saying, I'm so proud to work here. I'm sober. I'm celebrating two months. Like, I you know, thank you so much for making this okay.

Rob Durant [00:19:50]:

How can sales leaders support employees who choose not to drink?

Marin Nelson [00:19:55]:

So I think the first is for leaders. If you have any team members and you partner with SoBrent or, you have a way to support employees who are seeking help with substance use disorder to name exclude explicitly, you are safe to ask for help at this company. And if you need help, you know, if they are a customer of ours and they say to the team, we help them with this. If you're struggling with drinking or drugs or you're concerned about a loved one, you can call Sobrynthh. They're safe. They're free. They're available to you. So that helps to just normalize it too.

Marin Nelson [00:20:29]:

For specifically skills, I would just encourage leaders to think about what are other ways we can gather. Can we go volunteer together? That's a great team building activity. Can we send a different gift other than wine when someone achieves a goal? Can we ensure that at every dinner, there's an NA option on the table alongside the wine that everyone else is talking about? Right? Like, the number of times I, I was asked, well, what wine should we get? I'm like, oh, you're asking the wrong person. I have no idea. I have the credit card to pay for the dinner, but I cannot tell you what to order, and I'll be drinking this other thing. So, you know, I think all of those, again, little moments of intention make a big difference. I can say that when, I went to company kickoff at Salesforce before I left, they it was such a powerful moment. It was the the champagne toast at the end of sales kickoff or company kickoff, and I had never been able to participate in this toast.

Marin Nelson [00:21:24]:

I was always, like felt like the odd person out with my bottle of water. And for the first time, they had nonalcoholic champagne on the table in the same exact glass clearly labeled, and just as many of those options as the alcoholic options were out. And it was such an amazing moment to be able to toast with my fellow colleagues to the kickoff of a new year with NA. And, again, small small change, not a big lift, but huge impact. And it can be the difference if someone's staying sober or not in that moment because of that fear of feeling different or, you know, separate from your colleagues. No one wants to feel that. So, those are things that sober sales leaders could do to make a more safe environment.

Rob Durant [00:22:13]:

So, Marin, if you were to emphasize the one thing you would want our audience to take away from today's episode, what would that one thing be?

Marin Nelson [00:22:22]:

To know that there's twenty one million people in United States who are in recovery from substance use disorder, and you're not alone. And if you're struggling to reach out for help, to know that you are supported and that there are a whole bunch of us in the workforce who are here to cheer you on and help you out.

Rob Durant [00:22:39]:

Fantastic. This has been great. Where can people learn more? How can they get in touch with you?

Marin Nelson [00:22:46]:

So follow Sobrynth on LinkedIn. Add me on LinkedIn. Reach out. We'd love to talk. If you work with a company, that's an enterprise company and are interested in making your workplace recovery friendly, we'd love to have that conversation and help support you.

Rob Durant [00:23:01]:

Fantastic. And we will be providing some additional, resources in our newsletter. You can find our newsletter at salestv.live/newsletter. If you liked what you saw today, please take a moment to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Substack, or YouTube. Let us know what you learned and what you'd like to learn more about. Your feedback helps us reach more people like you and fulfill our mission of elevating the profession of sales. This has been another edition of Sales TV Live. On behalf of everyone at Sales TV Live, to our guest, Marin, and to our audience.

Rob Durant [00:23:40]:

Thank you for being an active part in today's conversation, and we'll see you next time. Thank you very much.

Marin Nelson [00:23:47]:

Thanks, Rob.

#Sobriety #WorkplaceCulture #Performance #Sales #Pipeline #LinkedInLive #Podcast