In today’s SaaS landscape, Go-to-Market strategy is more critical than ever, yet so many companies find themselves struggling with complex, fragmented approaches that dilute their message and confuse their audience. The challenges are real: from over-complicating messaging and targeting too many segments, to misalignment between sales, marketing, and product teams. Joining us to tackle this issue is Louis Fernandes, Director at Magnitude 10 Associates.

In this conversation, we’ll break down what’s broken in typical GTM strategies, why simplicity and clarity are essential, and actionable steps to build a GTM approach that’s memorable, impactful, and built to drive growth.

We’ll explore questions like:

* What are the biggest GTM mistakes SaaS companies are making today?

* Why is simplicity so critical to a GTM strategy’s success?

* How can companies avoid the pitfalls of vague targeting and segmentation?

* What are practical ways to ensure GTM alignment across sales, marketing, and product?

* How can a streamlined GTM strategy shorten sales cycles and improve revenue?

A seasoned GTM and Revenue Leader who has spent decades reshaping GTM frameworks to drive real impact in SaaS, Louis has led significant GTM transformations across high-growth SaaS companies, achieving milestones like €30M revenue increases and impressive customer satisfaction gains. With over 20 years of executive experience in MarTech and FinTech, his approach merges strategic insight with hands-on solutions, designed to build a GTM strategy that truly delivers.

Facts, the latest thinking, chat, and banter about the world of sales.

Come and join us for some lively discussion and debate.

This week's Guest was -

• Louis Fernandes, Director at Magnitude 10 Associates

This week's Host was -

• Andy Hough, Founder & Director of The Institute of Sales Professionals

This week's Panelist was -

• Adam Gray, Co-founder of DLA Ignite

Transcript of SalesTV.live Early Edition 2024-11-12

Andy Hough [00:00:03]:

Good morning, and welcome to Sales TV on, a sunny Tuesday, which is absolutely brilliant and a change from last week. We are joined by, one of our regular hosts, Adam Gray. Say good morning, Adam.

Adam Gray [00:00:16]:

Good morning, Adam.

Andy Hough [00:00:17]:

Good morning, Adam. Yes. And the humor is already top notch. And we're also joined by our guest today, which is a a gentleman called Louie Fernandez, who is, been telling us before we actually went live that that's his at his office, and he's got a bar. Just imagine you're looking in. You as the audience are sat on top of the bar, so do help yourself to anything that you want whilst you're there. It's an honor bar, so that's fine. Louis, you and I met, a few weeks ago, at a conference.

Andy Hough [00:00:49]:

We had a really interesting conversation about people getting go to market strategy and execution wrong. Could you tell us a bit about yourself, your your history, and and why this subject's really important to you? And then we've got some questions that we're gonna ask you so that, hopefully, the audience can find out a bit more about the thinking you've got behind it. So, let's start with who you are and how you got here.

Louis Fernandes [00:01:13]:

Well, brilliant. Firstly, thank you very much both of you for having me along today. I'm really delighted to be here. So as you said, my name is Louie Fernandez. I have been working in SaaS now for about 20 years. And during the course of that time, over the last sort of decade, I've been in sort of revenue leadership positions in scaling SaaS businesses. So that's been anything from sort of, you know, 10, 20,000,000 to a 100,000,000. It's it's that sort of, journey that I've been on.

Louis Fernandes [00:01:45]:

So one of the reasons that I talk about go to market as being a really important piece is because I've seen it go wrong a lot of times and occasionally been party to it myself. So it's one of these things. I think you learn a lot from mistakes that you make along the way and on the journey. But, equally, you also see some of the practices that work and also see, you know, things that don't, not necessarily in your own organization, but but elsewhere as well. I think the other thing as well is because I came into revenue, leadership and sales actually a little bit late in life, I started life actually off as a marketer, sort of client side marketer, then went to agencies. And then the agency that I was working for got bought by a tech company, hence, I've ended up in technology. Yep. It's one of these things.

Louis Fernandes [00:02:32]:

I've always approached revenue generation and sales with a bit of a marketing hat on. And that has meant that, you know, strategically, I sort of look at, you know, what are we doing from a go to market perspective in terms of how are we defining our markets, how we defining our ICPs, how are we doing segmentation targeting, positioning of our products and services in a way that is relevant to and resonant with, the customers we wanna target. So Yep. It it's always been that sort of an approach.

Andy Hough [00:03:06]:

Excellent. And, just before we delve into the questions, because, Adam, I think it's fair to say that you were around at the pivot towards SAS? Not saying that you're old, but you you worked in a a large tech company that actually acquired the company that I worked for, and kinda exited hardware in quite a big way and went into software. And then, actually, Louis, you know, you know, you're talking about is, you know, this this kind of strange, almost different type of sales thing that just grew and arrived. And I think they said that SaaS now is something like a 7,000,000,000,000 sort of, like, you know, industry in its own right. But 1999, 2000, it it pretty much didn't exist.

Louis Fernandes [00:03:55]:

Yeah.

Andy Hough [00:03:56]:

And I know that we talked to some people, who are in what we would call the classic sales function, where they do have products and and solutions, and it's not necessarily, anything to do with technology. It could be, you know, print manufacturing or FMCG. They feel that kind of SAS is maybe somewhat hijacked the whole kind of sales function because it's grown so quickly, and it's changed that process. So, you know, what what do you what do you see as the SaaS marketplace before we dive into the 5 or so questions that we've got for you? How how we got here with SaaS?

Louis Fernandes [00:04:36]:

I I think it's been one of these things that, you know, when if I think about enterprise software as it used to be. Right? You'd sell something, for want of better term, on a disk. Okay? People would upload it somewhere, and they would then run the infrastructure. And I think that the whole change in mentality from actually, you know what? We don't just want to have the provision of a product. We want the provision of a service whereby you look after us, and you manage the infrastructure. You manage the security. You manage the uptime. All those different types of things Yep.

Louis Fernandes [00:05:14]:

On a in a remote way. And all x actually, I'm paying for as a consumer of those services is a service level agreement effectively. That that that's what it is. Mhmm. And I think the the risk profile has changed over time so that the risk now sits with, you know, the vendor rather than, actually, you bought your software. It's now up to you to manage that and everything about it, patches, whatever. All of that risk is gone. So I think that's part of it.

Louis Fernandes [00:05:45]:

The other thing, again, I think was, the financial change. So, you know, from, a CapEx to an OpEx expenditure and actually, you know, the ongoing ability to say, actually, if I don't like it, I can move quite quite easily. Well, relatively so compared to what it used to be like.

Andy Hough [00:06:03]:

K. So thanks for that. I think that's a very good backdrop. Now you've given that, what are what are some of the most common mistakes that you see in in SaaS companies going to market?

Louis Fernandes [00:06:15]:

Yeah. I think that's a great question. I think the the big challenge oftentimes is that it gets too complicated too quickly. So I think that a lot of companies, they wanna be all things to all different organizations, and suddenly you end up with too many features in in your product that you're always talking about. You, servicing too many segments. You know, you end up with too many product tiers, lots and lots of permutations and combinations of what you can do. And what that ends up with is you end up then with fragmented messaging when you go to market so that there's no clear value proposition. Your core messaging gets lost.

Louis Fernandes [00:07:00]:

Customers get confused, and then you end up actually with a lack of cohesion, I think, between sales and marketing and product teams. So I think that's that's where the main challenge lies. And, you know, I think I've seen that on a number of occasions where you end up with these huge organizations all trying to, sort of explain what it is that the product does or the service does, and nobody really understands it. And there's massive confusion. And I think, you know, with that broad audience that you're trying to serve, you end up with inconsistent messaging. You end up with too many versions of things. And it just stretches resources in in an organization, which is which then ultimately affects your unit economics. And that's something that, again, I think, plays a lot into go to market strategy, but the lack of understanding of what overcomplicating your GTM strategy does to your unit economics.

Louis Fernandes [00:08:05]:

And it's no surprise that right now, SaaS finds itself a little bit in a crisis point. I mean, the last couple of years when we've seen, you know, money drying up

Andy Hough [00:08:14]:

Yep.

Louis Fernandes [00:08:14]:

From VCs and private equity firms and the real focus now on, you know, not just revenue growth at all costs, but profitable, sustainable, predictable revenue growth. I mean, you know, who knew that profit was gonna be one of those things that we focus on? You know, I I I sat there and I thought, well, back in the 19 eighties when I first came into industry, we always used to talk about, you know, revenue for vanity, profit for sanity, and it's something that, you know, as an industry, I think we forgot for 10 years when, you know, it was effectively free money. So I think all of these things have helped overcomplicate go to market strategies, and now, actually, we've gotta pause it down and really simplify. I hope that makes sense.

Adam Gray [00:08:58]:

Isn't there an issue, though, when you when you simplify the product down to its so I think the challenge that we have in sales of any complex strategic purchase is that, you're the expert. You're the vendor. I'm the buyer. Yep. Therefore, by nature of that, I'm ignorant in my knowledge of the product in the marketplace compared to you. Because if I wasn't, I'd do it myself. I wouldn't need you guys.

Andy Hough [00:09:21]:

Yep. But

Adam Gray [00:09:22]:

so, so for me, I'm buying something which is fairly central to the product. I think that's what I'm buying. Yep. When I look out into the marketplace, I see loads of vendors that appear to be the same. They're all doing products that are CRM systems, for argument's sake. So so the only differentiator that you can you can offer is that complexity and those features. Even though, ironically, I'm often blind to those, but but you're you're desperately looking to put clear water between yourself and and the competitors. So it I think you've got, like, a balancing act between these two things.

Adam Gray [00:09:59]:

You need to to offer a different product or service. However, I'm buying something at a very fundamental level rather than a very complex level as the buyer.

Louis Fernandes [00:10:11]:

Yeah. And I think that that you you've hit the nail on the head with the last sentence you just said. You know, you're buying something very fundamental. So what are those fundamentals? You know, how do you explain how those fundamentals play into core metrics of an organization? Mhmm. You know, ultimately, you can have as many bits and bytes and speeds and feeds as you like, But what is the outcome that they deliver to your organization, and how do we talk about it in those kind of terms? And, actually, when you're making those kind of large purchase decisions, if you're asking me to part with half a1000000 quid on a particular solution or 10,000,000 or whatever it happens to be, you know, do I really care fundamentally when I'm making that decision about the nitty gritty of does it come in blue or does it come in red? Do do I care about that? Or do I care that actually, one, it's not gonna put my company at risk? So that's that's the first priority. And number 2, it's gonna give me a return on the investment and address 2 or 3 core points that are absolutely fundamental, to use your word, to what we do.

Adam Gray [00:11:25]:

Mhmm. Absolutely. Thank you.

Andy Hough [00:11:26]:

I think that's really interesting because I was always, taught, Louis, that every every company on is a brand and a factory, and you just hit hit the nail on the head there, which is, you know, you do not want to put that brand at risk, and you want the factory to go quicker. You know, you want to be more productive. Now that is a very, very simplistic way of looking at it, and and it I've never been able to never been able to actually shape that simplicity. But, you know, if we look at the next question that we wanna pose to you, which is why is simplicity so critical in go to market strategy?

Louis Fernandes [00:12:02]:

I think it it almost dovetails into what we were just talking about because it it cuts through that noise in a crowded market. You know, as things stand at the moment, it let let we started talking about CRM, so let let's stick with sort of CRM, MarTech, those kind of things. Scott Brinker, guy I'm sure you guys would have come across. He does the chief MarTech marketing landscape

Andy Hough [00:12:29]:

Yep. Chart.

Louis Fernandes [00:12:30]:

When he brought that in, what, was it, I think, 2011? There may be a 152100 products on

Andy Hough [00:12:36]:

there. Mhmm.

Louis Fernandes [00:12:37]:

Right? That was 2,011. Fast forward to this year, when he published it, I think there were over 14,000 different technologies on there. Right? 14,000. Now, absolutely, MarTech has become larger as a as a as a category. No question. It's not become a 100 times larger in 10 years. Right? That that's just not it's just not the case. So if I now have to compete against 14,000 different other vendors, the simplicity of my message will cut through that noise because customers feel overwhelmed as it is.

Louis Fernandes [00:13:16]:

You know, if I can focus then on real value drivers, a bit to the point we're just talking about, you know, what are those fundamentals? What are the real value drivers of my solution, of my service, of my product? And then, you know, that's that's where I start communicating. If I can communicate that, then what I think inevitably leads on to is smoother buying journeys and shorter sales cycles, and the customer immediately understands the product's core benefits. So how how's that not a good thing? The other thing that I think happens as a as a consequence of this is that internally within organizations, one of the things we've always talked about for as long as I've been in this space, right, has been how do you get sales and marketing to align? You know, sales and marketing alignment, it's it's one of the the the big bugbears that a lot of organizations have. If you can make your strategy, make your message simplistic, that's something that even internal stakeholders start to understand. We can all get behind that message. We can all drive, you know, the same out towards the same outcomes, and that actually creates that cohesion internally, which I think is vital.

Andy Hough [00:14:29]:

It's it's at at the conference where we met, actually, there was the lady from LinkedIn, the, b to b Institute for LinkedIn.

Louis Fernandes [00:14:35]:

Yep.

Andy Hough [00:14:36]:

And and she talked, all about, obviously, memory share. So if you go back to your 1400, you know, titles, technology, solutions, whatever you want to call them, yeah, how do you get mark memory share for perspective buyers in that market? And you're right. Simplicity of the core message is really, really, really vital. So a great comment here from, Paul. Thank you for that, Paul. Please do post your comments. I just put here always cost versus opportunities not taken if you do nothing, which I think is brilliant. Helps us pivot to, the next question, which, I've got my thoughts on, but it's not about my thoughts.

Andy Hough [00:15:20]:

It's about Louis. So can you talk us through the importance of segmentation, targeting, and positioning in a successful go to market strategy?

Louis Fernandes [00:15:29]:

Sure. I think it's it's important to define what these things are. You know? I mean, for me, segmentation targeting positioning is kinda like marketing 101. So segmentation, it's about identifying and prioritizing the highest value customer groups. That's the first thing we need to do. What do they look like? What are they what are the similarities? What are the what are the the sort of common needs that they have? Targeting then lets you direct your internal resources and messaging towards those high value groups. So that's about these are the people we're gonna go after

Andy Hough [00:16:02]:

Mhmm.

Louis Fernandes [00:16:02]:

Because they're in our ICP, our ideal customer profile. And and that's where we need to actually direct our efforts towards because they're gonna be the highest value to us as an organization. The last bit, positioning, that's where you sort of start articulating the unique value of your product or service in a very clear and memorable way. That that's how I would sort of define those things. Now the reason I think this is vitally important to get right because not only does that going through that process help you define what your ICT looks like, it also helps ensure internally that everybody understands what it is. Okay? So one of the things that I've talked about a lot in the past is this temptation that sales organizations particularly have to to go after something that is, a bit opportunistic. Might not be in my ICP. Right? But it's got some immediate value that I can recognize right now, and off I go.

Louis Fernandes [00:17:03]:

And it's great because from a headline perspective, we've just done a big deal. It looks fantastic, but then you get into your problems. It's not a great fit for the product or the service. It's not a great fit for the company. You end up spending a lot more resource, time, effort, energy, and money on servicing it. And, ultimately, 6, 12 months down the line, that customer is not happy anyway, and they are try it. So you you end up with an entire problem, but this is why I think it's so vitally important because, again, from a unit economics point of view, and I will keep on coming back to this unit economics point, you end up making more money by focusing on customers that exactly fit your ICP through that segmentation targeting and positioning process

Andy Hough [00:17:48]:

Yep.

Louis Fernandes [00:17:49]:

Than you do by taking things on the periphery that you're not necessarily well addressed to to to deal with. There's a great example for me. One of the best examples actually in SaaS at the moment is, around 0, so the accounting software folks. A couple of years ago, they articulated very, very clearly what their go to market strategy was gonna be. They've got 2 segments they focus on. It's basically, small businesses from 1 to 20 employees. That's who they build for. Very clear.

Louis Fernandes [00:18:22]:

And they they're really clear. That is what we're gonna go after, and these are the routes to market that we're gonna follow. Mhmm. And anything outside of that, yeah, we we might do those things, but we're not building for them. So that's not our core proposition. That's not our core market. That's not what we're doing. And if you look at their numbers, if you look at things like, the rule of 40, I think they were just over 40, 40.1 or something like that.

Louis Fernandes [00:18:46]:

41% is what it was. Sorry. You look at the revenue growth that they've enjoyed over the last couple of years. You look at the the the profit margins that they're they're hitting. You know, that to me really, really extols the virtues of great segmentation, targeting, and positioning because they know exactly what they're going after and why they're doing it.

Adam Gray [00:19:10]:

So so how do you keep your team focused on that? Because in my experience of working with organizations of all sizes, their heads are easily turned. So you're you're exactly the kind of people that we need to be doing business with. But, oh, look at that over there. There's an opportune and people you know, it's very difficult, particularly people in a customer facing role. And I'm not, I'm not vilifying salespeople when I say this, but, you know, they're people pleasers. Somebody comes to them and says, see, I'd like to buy from you. Well, yes. Absolutely.

Adam Gray [00:19:43]:

I'd like to help you. And and it's it's very easy to be distracted from that that vision, isn't it? That kind of okay. You are a perfect fit with us and people like you. But, you know, it's who are you selling to? Well, men and and women. You know, actually, it's that that's not a a segment, is it?

Louis Fernandes [00:20:04]:

Yeah. And I I think it's a great point, and I think there there there are 3 things at play here. Number 1, it's around, you know, basically leadership. So from a leadership perspective, how do we learn to say no? Okay? Because, again, any sort of segmentation targeting positioning that you're doing, it's as much and any go to market strategy, it's as much about what you're saying no to as to what you're saying yes to. So it's a leadership thing. The second thing then, talking about leadership, is actually about frontline management. And they, I think, are one of the most underserved cohorts in any organization. So supporting them to make decisions that are negative.

Louis Fernandes [00:20:51]:

So I am not going to pursue this because it doesn't fit our ICP. I know that I my back is covered because I've got the air cover from my line manager and so on and so forth. So that that becomes really important. And then I think the the last thing then is compensation, comp plans. Compensation drives behavior. Who knew?

Andy Hough [00:21:12]:

So if

Louis Fernandes [00:21:15]:

you so if if you if you incentivize people to stick within an ICP, guess what? They'll do it because they get paid more. It it's not that hard. Well, I I say it's not that hard. I say that a little bit tongue in cheek. It is bloody difficult. But I think it's about just continually reinforcing, that that kind of, behavior. And you've got to model that behavior as well as a leader.

Andy Hough [00:21:41]:

Yeah. I think I think that is such a refreshing viewpoint. I'm glad Adam asked that that question because it is always if you haven't got enough pipeline, if you haven't got enough deals, you'll go over and, you know, straight out of your swim lane. And and, actually, I don't know if anyone's ever kind of investigated it, but you must burn far more time there and take yourself further away from being able to achieve your targets and goals, as opposed to just finding a lot more of those people who fit in that. And, you know, it's it's very interesting. Yeah. I I lived with a previous employer looking at segmentation and just pick up you know, the viewpoint we had is, well, that's the most wacky idea. I mean, look at customers from their perspective, not from what they spend.

Andy Hough [00:22:28]:

Because if we look at who they are and and what they use technology for, we may find that we can serve a a niche of them a lot better than than actually our competitors. Moving again to the next question, you know, how do how does an organization, you know, we've talked about Martech in this example, 1400, titles.

Louis Fernandes [00:22:52]:

14 sorry. Did I misspeak? I meant 14,000.

Andy Hough [00:22:55]:

14,000. Okay. It's

Louis Fernandes [00:22:57]:

probably Like 150 to 14,000.

Andy Hough [00:22:59]:

I'm not very good with numbers as Adam will attest, so we'll just put an extra note on that in a minute. How how with 14,000 do you ensure that your go to market resonates with with the people you try to talk to? I mean, you talked about Xero. How did they make that resonate?

Louis Fernandes [00:23:16]:

Okay. So this is another thing that I I think is is quite interesting. What Xero did, I think, quite well a few years ago, especially when it became to, making tax digital, You know, they they did a great brand campaign. And one of the things that I think a lot of organizations get wrong is they focus on that we need leads. Give me more leads. I need, a 1,000,000,000 leads. Bring me leads. There's a great piece of work, and you and I have talked about this before, Andrew, you know, by, Les Binnett and Peter Field

Andy Hough [00:23:51]:

Mhmm.

Louis Fernandes [00:23:52]:

Along and the short of it. And it talks about and and this this is something that, again, I think marketers will be familiar with, salespeople less so. And it just talks about how you balance brand activation with sales activation. So going back to what you need, you need to start with having a clear compelling value proposition that's easy to remember. Then you need to start talking about that, and you need to align that messaging across not just what you're doing in sales, but what you're doing with marketing and product teams, and then get that message out there. So how do I do that through a brand activation perspective, and how do I do that as well in my, you know, sales activation with demand generation and whatever else I'm doing? And I think that that's part of what you need to do. And, again, going back to the conference we were just talking about, there was that whole piece that, b b b to b Institute did about, like, you know, what what is the value of one set of eyeballs on your, message? If you had a 1000000 people seeing it once or a half a 1000000 people seeing it twice, what delivers more value? Well, it's actually the actual penetration. So a 1000000 see people seeing it once because you get better recall.

Louis Fernandes [00:25:04]:

Yeah. So it and and that, I think, was quite striking. And it really feeds into that narrative about, you know, you've got to do brand activation alongside sales activation. And you've gotta make sure that the messaging is consistent. You've gotta keep the customer journey simple, and then you've gotta use real world use cases to make that value proposition relatable. K? So it's it's all great that we've got the bells and the whistles and all this kind of stuff over here, but we did this with x y z company, and this was the outcome a b c. Boom. It you know, talking about it in real terms, I think, is really, really important.

Andy Hough [00:25:47]:

I think that's great. So, you know, it that that's back to what is the outcome or was Andy Bounds would talk about it, what's the purpose, previous person on one of the shows, which is great. You know, it comes back to, and it more more specifically to the final question. You know, nobody wants a 4 4 millimeter drill. They all want a 4 millimeter hole, but we do tend, unfortunately, to have product marketing and product development kind of get sucked into that trap. So the last question I we would pose to you is, you know, how do sales marketing and product development, product marketing that a lot of people have, how do they align to actually make an effective go to market?

Louis Fernandes [00:26:29]:

Okay. So I think one of the most, misunderstood functions within most SaaS businesses I've been in is product marketing. And I I always see product marketing as almost being the glue between sales, marketing, and product teams. So they can define things like, you know, what is that unified value proposition, and who is that ideal customer profile? Because they they they should be both facing the market in terms of, you know, understanding what the market needs are, but also then aligning internally to sort of say, how do we develop the product in a way that actually meets those customer needs that that are being articulated? How do we create the sales and marketing collaterals and messaging frameworks that then are gonna resonate with those ICPs, the personas, the organizations, and address the real issue. So I think that that's that's where you you kinda need to start. From there, you then develop those shared playbooks. So, you know, what does that playbook look like, and do we all agree on that? Because it shouldn't be just a you know, we've done this in a in a vacuum over here. You need to bring the other people in a in an organization together.

Louis Fernandes [00:27:48]:

So that is sales, marketing, and product folks. Altogether, we agree on what the playbook needs to be and how that then needs to maybe change subtly for different segments and different personas. And then we also use feedback loops to keep all the teams updated on customer insights. You know? So when the market changes, we then sort of understand, you know, this is how it's changing. This is how we need to adapt because it almost goes back to this idea of product market fit. You know? A lot of people think product market fit is a one time thing. It's one and done. Let's move on.

Louis Fernandes [00:28:23]:

It's not. It's continually evolving. As your market evolves, as, you know, economies evolve, as needs evolve, Your product market fit needs to evolve as well, and it's this is no different. And then I think that by doing all those kind of things, you can then sort of get, much better alignment across the business. You get better custom customer satisfaction. You realize operational efficiencies. And, actually, again, who knew you get better forecasting accuracy because you're actually talking about things that, actually, people want to buy in a way that they want to buy it.

Andy Hough [00:29:00]:

That's brilliant. Adam, do you wanna close this out?

Adam Gray [00:29:06]:

Yeah. Well, I I I I certainly can do. I I think, you know, there's a there's a nice simplistic pragmatism to this way of doing things. You know? Am I selling a product that people actually want to buy, and am I articulating it in a way that they can actually understand it? And I think that that, so often business, particularly VC or investor funded business, is all smoke and mirrors. And you said earlier about how, it's it's a profit for sanity rather than vanity. And, you know, what what we often see is, SaaS businesses being acquired or being invested in on the promise of something magical happening at some point down the road. A cautionary tale for this is Rand Fishkin's book Lost and Founder, where he founded a very successful business and, and the investors in the business didn't want to dispose of the business when they should have done and consequently, it became almost valueless. And I think that so often, people forget these basics.

Adam Gray [00:30:12]:

You know, if you don't sell stuff, you don't have a business. And part of that is is understanding this this how are you taking your product to market, making it attractive to people. So, you know, it's been a brilliant conversation today. Thank you so much, Louie, for joining us, and, thank you, Andy, for sharing.

Andy Hough [00:30:30]:

No. No problem at all. Louie, I will I'll extend that. Thank you. Been brilliant to hang out with you. We will follow-up, on the channel with some of the recommendations that Louis talked about and and Adam talking about in terms of the books that you're gonna have a read of. We hope you've enjoyed it. Thank you for your participation, and we look forward to you tuning in tomorrow and next week.

Louis Fernandes [00:30:51]:

Thanks so much, guys. It's been a pleasure being on.

Andy Hough [00:30:54]:

Brilliant. Thank you, Louis.

Louis Fernandes [00:30:55]:

Thanks, Louis. Cheers.

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