Rejection is an inevitable part of the sales journey, but it doesn't have to be a permanent roadblock. Join us on SalesTV.live as we explore strategies to understand and move beyond rejection with Cathia Ziebel. Cathia is the Founder and Director of OppidHum, where she champions innovation and collaboration to unlock untapped potential in individuals and organizations.

In this episode, we'll ask:

* What is happening when we face rejection?

* How can we better understand and interpret rejection?

* What are the strategies to help us deal with rejection?

* What happens when you are still waiting for a “No”?

Cathia brings a wealth of experience in facilitating transformative processes for leaders and organizations, focusing on cooperation, trust, and regeneration. Her work with OppidHum and other collectives provides her with deep insights into overcoming setbacks and fostering resilience.

Tune in to gain valuable perspectives and practical tips to navigate rejection and turn it into a steppingstone for success.

Facts, the latest thinking, chat, and banter about the world of sales.

Come and join us for some lively discussion and debate.

This week's Guest was -

• Cathia Ziebe, Founder and Director of OppidHum

This week's Host was -

• Helga Saraiva-Stewart, Founder of SalesShaker

Transcript of SalesTV.live Early Edition 2024-07-16

Helga Saraiva-Stewart [00:00:03]:

Good morning, valuepreneurs. It's so wonderful to have you join us. Thank you for checking out sales TV. We are so excited today. It's a team, myself, and the production team. We have Cathia in the house. I'm so excited. Cathia Ziebel Good morning.

Helga Saraiva-Stewart [00:00:23]:

She's the founder and CEO of OppidHum. Good morning, Cathia. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Who do you work with? Who do you support? And what do you do for them?

Cathia Ziebel [00:00:38]:

So first of all, good morning from sunny Lisbon. So it's a very beautiful morning here, and I'm really happy to be with you. And to be with you, Helga, thank you for the invitation. And thank you, Sales TV. So it's, like, quite exciting for me. It's, like, so early in the morning. So what do I do? Basically, we help organizations and companies to develop trust and cooperation within their teams and within the organization. So we can, we use like a few techniques in collective intelligence tools mostly born from the MIT.

Cathia Ziebel [00:01:22]:

So we use also, like frameworks that help us to gain really quick results in, in, and a deep transformation at the same time because this is what we have this discovered is, like, there's a there's a lack of trust in the organization and as well when we talk to CEOs or to directors they all say okay Okay. We know that change needs time, but we we also want quick results or see them at least quickly. So so that was, like, what we use. So it's basically a a short framework, 3 to 5 weeks or months. It depends on the on the quantity and the scope that we use, that we are working on. And, we come up with prototypes prototypes and then we enter in a startup mode. So in within, like, 2 or 3 months, we iterate and we get the idea from that we come from the idea to the implementation of, new reality. So who we serve is basically people who want deep change in a in a faster way.

Cathia Ziebel [00:02:36]:

And we also work with territories, so I'll just add this. So we work also on whole ecosystems where all the stakeholders are together and do the process of cooperation and co creation together because they want to develop something in a bigger scale, within a territory. It could be like a municipality, it could be like a bigger organizations coming together on a topic like we have, like, now habitation or economic development in in some specific area in Portugal. So this we also have to support the ecosystem in this way.

Helga Saraiva-Stewart [00:03:17]:

I I love that. We've known each other for a few years, and you're actually one of the first people I met when I arrived in Portugal 8 years ago, and it's certainly been transformational for me. So thank you so much for being part of my life. I couldn't think of a better person to talk about, you know, rejuvenating ourselves, you know, renewing ourselves. And of course, the topic of rejection is so important in the sales industry and for sales professionals. And, you know, you are incredibly knowledgeable, in this topic, but with very, very interesting perspective. So let's let's dive in really quickly and help us to understand, you know, in your mind, what happens when we face rejection? What's going on with us?

Cathia Ziebel [00:04:18]:

Actually, what what's going on, it's first of all, we take it personally. We think that it's about us. That is the what did I do wrong? What is it with me? What does he what does this person who says no or reject or or, like, has this movement of rejections, the person is not rejecting you. It's rejecting the proposal or the deal. Okay? So the first thing that is is really happening is we have these emotions and this idea that, oh, it's about my worth. Okay? And it's absolutely not about the the worth. It's about the circumstances, the timing. There are many reasons that can bring someone to say no to a proposal, okay, or to a service or to a product, whatever.

Cathia Ziebel [00:05:12]:

So it's it's, so the first thing is dealing with the emotions, and then it's, like, how we get we get out of this moment. So and then you have 2 things that, oh, you are in front of the of that person that is saying no. And then you have to to deal really quickly because you cannot let the emotion jump in and just get angry or show your sadness. So you can leave them. So this is, like, something very interesting because you can leave them and let them happen. And in the meantime, having, like, showing that you are still open to a conversation, even though inside you are going through a little bit of turbulences. Okay? So that's the first thing. It's it's really I can I can even see it because I I was sharing with Edgar just before, like, yesterday, I got a very important moment of rejection? And it was very funny because even though I was I'm I'm used to it, and I think it's normal because it's part of of the growth and it's part of the journey, anyway.

Cathia Ziebel [00:06:17]:

I even enjoy it. And yesterday, I was like, okay. So it was really in a in a in a conversation, and then I was like, okay. So just breathe. Just breathe because it's normal and discover what is behind this. No. We cannot do this now. Okay? And then I discovered that it was now.

Cathia Ziebel [00:06:41]:

It doesn't mean that it's 6 months. And then, and then we're gonna develop this later on, but it's it's it's a way you get out of this. But the first thing and even I and I'm used to I wouldn't say I'm used to rejection, not more or less than other people. But I deal with it pretty good, I guess. And even though I it's always the same. We go through this process, and we go through this moment of, oh my goodness. I walk so hard to get there. And then and now she she's saying, no.

Cathia Ziebel [00:07:09]:

We can't. So it's very funny. It's a the way they're organized.

Helga Saraiva-Stewart [00:07:16]:

I love that. Can you can you help us to understand it? I mean, how do we understand rejection? How do we interpret it?

Cathia Ziebel [00:07:27]:

Okay. It's it's actually always an interpretation. Okay? That's the thing. There is no truth in rejection. The only thing that we can, and I guess it's it's always the same, it's being flexible, you know, and working on our, of on acceptance and, resilience and and then go move forward with consistency and persistency. Okay? This is also part of, like, getting out. It's a process. So, basically, a process has a beginning and has an end.

Cathia Ziebel [00:07:58]:

We can there are for for me, there are 4 phases, and, I'm gonna share them with you. And if you feel that it resonates with you, it's okay. If not, there are many other people talking about rejection, so it's also good. Everything is good as long as it resonates with you. The only thing that I can say is, like, it starts always with an emotion and it starts with the way we react to that reaction to to that, emotion. How we, how we not take it personally. That's the first thing. And then there we I use this method that I, I used to to I love acronyms, so I always, like, create, like, little words or little.

Cathia Ziebel [00:08:42]:

So I have this one. I have created, for us, it's AURA, so a u r a. Okay? So it's very it's like a square. You imagine it, you have 4 letters in a square, and we need to go through the all through all the letters to make sure. And then depending on how deep it is, how strong it is, you're gonna move faster from one step to another. Okay? So first step so shall I go with this, Elga? Is it okay if I, great. So, aura. So awareness, meaning what? So this is not personal.

Cathia Ziebel [00:09:24]:

You acknowledge your emotions. You acknowledge that there is sadness. That that may be anger. That may be disappointment. And you just acknowledge it. You just say, okay. I'm sitting with this now. Okay? Once you are with this, it's basically if you don't go through this moment, it will go with you all all along.

Cathia Ziebel [00:09:51]:

So just deal with it immediately. Okay? And then I would say that something very important in this moment of awareness is, also share with someone. The there that's why the team is so important or, like, a colleague or someone or even, like, a friend. Someone you can go to and you can say, okay. I'm I'm I had this moment of, rejection, and what happened is this. Okay. So this is in the situation when we are not in front of a client. Okay? We are already in the getting out of this the noise already there, and we are moving on and moving forward from this moment.

Cathia Ziebel [00:10:32]:

But it's it's using this situation of rejection allows us to start a new journey, a new a journey of discovery. And mostly a journey of discovery with this client who said no. Okay? So awareness and then you can share with someone if you need it or with the team. I guess it's so important that you can also talk with peers about it because then you're gonna discover that it's happening to all of us and that it's just normal. The duama is when we think it's only happening to us. Okay? It's not. For me, and I will use this a lot, is it's, a rejection is already a redirection. Okay? It's an opportunity to do something better else with this client or with someone else.

Cathia Ziebel [00:11:22]:

Okay? So it's a better use of your time, a better use to make another deal. So if you are obviously in a with a client, you can also if you feel comfortable enough yesterday, I did. I said this. I said this. I said, you know, I cannot say that I'm not disappointed because we are talking about this for months. And the person welcomed it really easily because I was really sad with compassion and because I was, like, acknowledging what was happening. And then I said that, yeah. Okay.

Cathia Ziebel [00:11:50]:

Let's let's see what we can do with that. Okay? And this is basically the mindset that we need to have. It's like and when we enter the process of aura, we get we get basically, what we are looking at is, what can I do with this? Okay? So a, awareness. U, understanding. Okay? We need to get into this mode of what is happening and why is this happening now? Okay? And then you're gonna discover most of the time that, obviously, 1, it's not about you. 2, it's about timing. It can be about circumstances. Circumstances can change from one month to another.

Cathia Ziebel [00:12:35]:

From a timing is maybe not good now, but it's good, but in another time. And if you stay in this mode of understanding, you will discover that maybe the deal is not down, that you can still have maybe an opportunity to to have this deal later on. Okay? So and then we ask the question. So what is it? What what is happening? What what would be the best timing? How can I help you maybe to to navigate what you're going through now? So maybe the deal can change. You know? You could enter and be in this, oh, I want to sell you a service, a certain service, or a product. And then I gonna discover that, oh, you don't need my product, but you need maybe help, a consultancy to help you navigate this moment. And maybe I can do it, or maybe someone in the company can do it, or maybe someone else that I know can do it. So as long as you stay in the in the opportunity in the in the zone of opportunities, and you open that window, that door, whatever speaks to you, it's it's there lies a new way, okay, the right the right direction.

Cathia Ziebel [00:13:52]:

And then as well, when you are in this understanding, you gain new perspective and new insights. Meaning what? That maybe for a a deal that could happen later on, you could discover that, an information that will help you to make that other deal happen. Okay? And as well, when you discover the perspective of the client, you can discover that, if it's a timing thing, or if they say no because at the end, it's not really what they want or it's they they moved on with someone else, you could say, okay. You can also show how fair you are because this is really, in the business world, is is well accepted and it's recognized. Okay? When we I know that, Elga, that you say that that is something that we share as well is the way we behave, the way we we we also show that we are we are fair in any situation, that we accept what is here, and that we but it doesn't mean that we are we stay inactive with that. We just acknowledge that this is the reality. Okay? So this is the second square, like the the second part, the 'you', and then we move to the air, and the air is reflection. So it's like, how can I reflect on new opportunities? Okay? There is a part of with waning there.

Cathia Ziebel [00:15:22]:

So if we enter and we say a no is an opportunity for a yes, it can be a yes for this deal if it's still meant to have meant to happen, or it could be a yes for something else. Okay? So how can we stay in this mindset of curiosity? And curiosity for me is one of the most important skills, nowadays with flexibility. Okay? And this is you enter in your zone of curiosity. Okay? With understanding you already are in it, but you continue and you persist because it's the curiosity about as well how can I rethink my strategy? Okay? How can I see and how can I bring value? And I know we are talking to valuepreneurs here. It's how can I bring value in in in the next proposition or in this counter proposal if we are in this? Okay? So it's it's so and you can have a very specific moment where you can even do a physical move. You know? I used to to help people, get and it's also a very important tool for me. If you are in the situation that is, like, very draining for you and it's, like, difficult or it's, and and you want to have a new perspective, you just step aside physically. You just go you just do one move or 2 steps to the right or to the left.

Cathia Ziebel [00:17:03]:

It just gives you another perspective. And I'm just gonna give you another tip. If you see this as the rejection, okay, if you stay with the rejection and don't look at and you what you see is only rejection, okay? And then the mind is starting, like, to create drama, okay? So but if we take a new perspective and we put it, like, in front of us like that, I don't know, Just with a distance, we can see that there are other things happening. Okay? This is what I am saying when I'm saying this is the rejection and then you can just say okay, but my rejection is now just this. It's part of a bigger frame. So this is, rethinking, and I guess this is something very important nowadays, is looking at it from a different perspective. Okay? And then there is something that we can also do is sitting still with it. Instead of willing to move very fast and find an answer and and being, like, really, quick to answer and to give a response or counter proposal.

Cathia Ziebel [00:18:29]:

Maybe we can just when we take this step aside or we just step down a little bit and we think and we see what is willing to emerge. Okay? And we reconnect with the demand. What is it what we heard when we were in this zone of understanding that needs to be heard now, that can give me and I need to think about it to give it time to see what will emerge as an answer. Okay? As another possibility. And then in this, I think in the we thinking, it's also connecting with the growth mindset. Okay? So this mindset of rejection is not a stop. Rejection is a way direction. So meaning that there is something else that is happening.

Cathia Ziebel [00:19:27]:

Okay? There may be a better path. There may be new opportunities. There may be an opportunity with this later on with this client. It's just thinking that and even if it's a definitive no, the way you behave, if you stay calm, and if you stay open and curious, they people will always recognize this. And, at some moment, when they think about, they will connect with this energy of calmness, of openness, and they will say, oh, but actually Elga and Cathia last time went, when they faced this snow, they were actually quite cool and they they were really in the discovery mode, they weren't like against me. They were, like, showing, like, anger even though I knew they know that this is happening, but they there was an openness and this keep keeps the door open anyway. Okay? So and the real challenge for me is always the same. It's, like, how when we get from rejection and we move beyond, when we move beyond rejection is is it's all about us.

Cathia Ziebel [00:20:48]:

It's how can I see this as an opportunity? And the growth mindset come, it's all about this. It's like seeing a no as a future yes. It may not be the yes that you're expecting, but it's a future yes. Okay? And then the last, part of the square, the a, it's adaptation. Okay? How can I adapt? It's not just about this specific situation when we face a rejection, but it's adapt in general with with what we learn from all of this and all of the experiences we had. So the first question is, what are the lessons that I can learn from this? Okay? Maybe I was too, too quick to think that the deal was done. Maybe I was not understanding very well the problem at the beginning. Whatever it is, just take a few minutes, days, hours, whatever time you need, to discover this.

Cathia Ziebel [00:22:01]:

And listen as well, and this is, for me, it's so important, and I guess Elga will, knows that. It's about the intuition. Also, listen to the little, like, the body, what what is it telling you? What is what is going on when you think about the lessons learned? Is the body is there some place in the body telling you something? So it's it's interesting to not just use the mind, we use the heart because we deal with our emotions, and we can also use the body as body has a lot of wisdom. So how can we connect with that is and how we connect and how deeply connected we stay with that is very important. And I would say in this phase of adaptation, then we can we sit already with it. Okay? We sat with it. So and now it's like, how can we adjust our actions? So is there a counter proposal? Is there should I move on and let go? And then really let go, meaning that at some point, I can come back, But this deal is over. It's okay.

Cathia Ziebel [00:23:14]:

Let's move on because I can dedicate my time to something else. Okay? And, we can also learn how to stay quiet and if it's a timely thing. Okay? Because if you go back every week and say oh, yeah. We talked about that it could happen in the in the next few months, and you come every week, I can tell you it's not gonna happen. So, definitely, give it time. But, also, keep, like, a a a nice connection with that person. Because if it's just a tiny thing, then you can go back, but we it doesn't need to be, like, every week or every hour or every day, whatever our our timing is. So it's about consistency, and then it's also about persistency.

Cathia Ziebel [00:24:02]:

So I'm not gonna touch, like, the the the how you can also develop your skills, the half key hard skills or soft skills because, Elga, for instance, is really good at it. I wouldn't I we developed soft skills, but it's it's it's already done. It's just to make sure that you also come come back to some knowledge and gain knowledge, gain new skills, or or improve the skills that you already have. And to finish, I would say that it's all about as well taking care of yourself. So it's about the the resilience. It's about how I can manage my own stress, how I can stay calm. So there are few tips that you can it's like, there are some meditation tools. They are, like, we get a little minute of silence just to sit and to land somewhere.

Cathia Ziebel [00:24:57]:

There is, like, stress management. You have emotional, emotional trainings that can help you to understand what is going on. And I would finish with 2 main important things for me. So never forget that there needs to be joy in whatever we do, And even in rejection, we can find some joy, in the process at least because, it's a way for us to come back to what is really important for us. And if this deal is really important, we're also gonna find because we use the process to find a new opportunity, a new strategy. We we can still make it happen. So it's if it's if it's still in the in the plans, okay, if it's a definitive no. But if not, you could something else can emerge from this and stay open, I guess, that it was.

Cathia Ziebel [00:25:54]:

Would

Helga Saraiva-Stewart [00:25:54]:

Stay open. I I do know. It's incredible how this time listening to you has just flown. I don't know where where our time has gone. Oh, man. I've got to wrap it up. Okay. I need to be back.

Helga Saraiva-Stewart [00:26:13]:

I you know, what do you think out there? We need do we need to bring Cathia back? I'll I'll go over. Just before I, say bye to everybody and ask you guys to join us again, for next time, Cathia, I would love to hear your thoughts on you know, you talked about growth mindset, and I was, reviewing Carol Black's TED talk on it and how we don't, for some reason, reward the not yet. You know, I'm not there yet. And this is not a posture that's rewarded neither by our parents, nor our employer or our bosses. So I would love to to hear, your thoughts on that. The other thing is, how do we bring on, handling, understanding the reason why something didn't happen. You know, if we were on a flow with a client and we expected something to happen and that result didn't come through And the client doesn't help us to understand of the prospect, the reason why that happened. You know, why why did they just have to, you know, string us along? What what what's in it for them? And so I would love to hear your thoughts on that.

Helga Saraiva-Stewart [00:27:35]:

Stay tuned. This has been Sales TV. We'd love having you here. I mean, come on. Check this out. Come visit us again soon. I have been your host, Helga Srivastewet. Love chatting with you.

Helga Saraiva-Stewart [00:27:48]:

Connect with us. Connect with Cathia Sibal. We'll see you soon. Bye for now.

Cathia Ziebel [00:27:53]:

Bye bye.

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