This week marks a first for SalesTV.live with the esteemed Lori Richardson returning to our show, this time taking the microphone as our guest host. This is our first SalesTV Spotlight Week, and the topic for this spotlight is Women in Sales. We will have programming each day this week in celebration.

Joining Lori for our kickoff episode are Helen Fanucci and Janice Gordon, themselves leading voices in the sales community. Together we will explore the crucial yet often overlooked role of allyship in advancing women within sales and sales leadership roles. With their extensive backgrounds and dedication to empowering women in sales, they will share actionable insights and innovative resources for fostering inclusive sales environments where both women and men can thrive.

During the show, we'll explore questions like:

* What does the current landscape look like for women in sales?

* Is leadership enough to drive women's advancement in sales?

* What role do allies play at every level to support women in the sales industry?

* How can effective allyship be put into practice within sales teams?

* What resources are available to promote allyship?

Join us for an insightful discussion and real-world examples of allyship making a difference..

This week we were joined by our Guest Host -

• Lori Richardson, B2B Sales / Revenue Growth Trainer; Sales Kickoff Speaker, Women In Sales advisor & podcast host, and author of "She Sells"

Joining our Guest Host was -

• Helen Fanucci, Founder of PipelinePower.ai and author of "Love Your Team: A Survival Guide for Sales Managers in a Hybrid World", and

• Janice B Gordon, Founder of Scale Your Sales and podcast host

Transcript of SalesTV.live Spotlight Week - Women in Sales 2024-03-04

Lori Richardson [00:00:01]:

Hello, everyone. My name is Lori Richardson, and I am the founder of Women's Sales Pros, which is a community for women. We help companies, grow through creating teams that are inclusive, and we teach sales leaders, how to hire and retain and promote more women into sales. I also, have 2 guests with me today. I'm gonna be the moderator. I'm so excited. I wanted to introduce first, I'm gonna introduce Helen Fanucci because I happen to have her book right here. Here it is.

Lori Richardson [00:00:44]:

It's called Love Your Team, a survival guide for sales managers in a hybrid world. And Helen is also founder of PipelinePower.ai Welcome, Helen.

Helen Fanucci [00:00:56]:

Thank you. So happy to be here.

Lori Richardson [00:00:59]:

Yes. And Janice Gordon, my podcast buddy. We've done a few episodes recently. Janice is a customer growth expert, and she's founder of Scale Your Sales and also a podcast host herself. So welcome, Janice. Good to see you.

Janice B Gordon [00:01:15]:

Lovely to have have my my peers and the people in that really inspire me. So I'm really looking forward to this.

Lori Richardson [00:01:24]:

Yeah, this is great. And if you're watching live, you're, you're welcome to send us questions or comments. We love to, to see them and share them. You know, this is going to be shown later on. This is, you know, an evergreen conversation that we're having. But in fact, it is the week of, you that we're having. But in fact, it is the week of International Women's Day. And so I always think this is a time of reflecting and thinking about how far we've come and how far we need to go when it comes to sales.

Lori Richardson [00:01:57]:

We're all very much involved in sales and revenue growth. So I I just thought if we focus on allies and how our male allies can support us, That would make for some good tips and ideas for people listening. If you're a woman in sales, fantastic. You can tell your male managers and leaders about some of these ideas. And, if you're a a man listening, we appreciate your Alex ship first and foremost because we know we can't change anything without the support of the majority, which is, men in the the sales workplace, if you will. So I thought we'd start despite does anybody have a a ment mentor or ally that comes to mind that you have, worked with that has been very supportive to you over the years, or maybe someone that you see in the LinkedIn world that we talk talk about, talk with periodically?

Janice B Gordon [00:03:04]:

Well, there's one that we both know, Laurie. Tom Casley. And I all the conversations that I have with him, he is my go to person when I'm talking about allyship and, sales leaders in the sales environment Andy how, you know, he has managed to bring on many and attract many women into sales. We know that if you have a female sales leader, they will naturally attract more women into sales. So Tom talks a lot about his daughters and why he's so passionate about it Andy why it's it's so important to him. Andy he lives and breathes it because it is a a personal passion of his. So I really always hold him up as the go to person, you know, and I get a lot of sales leaders, recommend a lot of sales leaders to talk to Tom. So, you know, I would like to pick him up as one of our allies, but also a leading light.

Janice B Gordon [00:04:05]:

And you know, I'm based in the UK. You're both based in the US. So I wanted to hold him up as a as a UK example of of real allyship in sales.

Lori Richardson [00:04:16]:

Yeah. I love that. I love that. I know that there's a women in sales event coming up, and I think he's involved in it or will be attending. And, yeah, big shout out to Tom. He's he's a really great sales leader. He's in the SaaS world, and we, you know, couldn't be happier to to know him. So shout out to Tom.

Lori Richardson [00:04:38]:

Helen, how about you? I I think First of all,

Helen Fanucci [00:04:42]:

I'll say I know Tom too. Oh. I met Tom at a CSO UK event a few years ago right before right before COVID. So in the corporate world, I have a couple examples, and the way that the male allies have shown up for me has have been, 1, to promote me. So I've got reckon I've been recognized for the work that I've done, and they've promoted me, but also, given me some mentorship and coaching. And one that comes to mind, Max Long, one of the the lessons I learned from him is he his point of view is, look, feedback is a gift. And, you know, if you don't see it that way, then, you know, you can start then we'll stop giving you feedback, and that's actually a red flag. So it really shifted my approach and thought about, you know, constructive feedback and things like that.

Helen Fanucci [00:05:41]:

And, of course, over the years, some of the feedback has been after reflection, I've decided, you know what? That's doesn't fit for me. So you also have to kind of look at it through the lens because not all male leaders I've had do I trust equally to have my best interest in heart, but Matt Max Max was one of them. And, then also being able to, work with leaders and have them see the opportunity for me to move into a different function across the organization. I've had that opportunity in corporate, and, again, these are men that I've worked with Andy through, you know, building relationships and having the kind of seeing the core skills. I've had folks, stand up for me in the kind of meetings where promotions and reviews are discussed, you know, behind closed doors. And so that kind of advocacy when you're not in the room has made a huge difference for me in career. So how do you develop that? Well, develop that by doing a fabulous job, but also building relationships deliberately with, male leaders who who, you know, express an interest or, realize that they can only be successful if they are promoting a diverse, leadership team. And so, you know, that's gotten more and more prevalent in corporate America.

Helen Fanucci [00:07:23]:

That diversity there's a recognition that, look, we need to have a diverse team that supports or mirrors the folks that we have the ambition to sell to. And so I think through that recognition that that's helped to build awareness and the propensity for allyship. Mhmm. And one of the things, Lori, that you didn't mention in your introduction as you're the author of She Sells. And that book also has been an effective tool for me to, because you you cite such a fantastic statistics of how women in leadership roles and women in sales outperform men in sales. Andy you have the data to support it, and sometimes that's also been an effective way for me to build more allyship and more, awareness because I do think there's many, many men that want to be supportive, but they don't know how to be. And, so beginning that conversation has been super effective.

Lori Richardson [00:08:31]:

Yeah. Well, thank you. Shout out to the the, she sells book. I will take that. That's lovely. I also would mention we have an ally on LinkedIn named Dan Goodman, and I don't know if anyone has known Tim, but he is an employee Adam. And he shares story after story after story of people that he has helped who had, just, you know, they they separated from the company, usually not on their own doing, and, had really bad, bad situation despite the great productivity, the sales that were generated, the the hard work. Sometimes, he shared one, that I saw today about a woman who was 6 61 Andy they thought she was too old and paid too well Andy, and I just really enjoy hearing his stories because he fights for employees and really helps them to figure out how to maximize their severance, so that they don't lose too much after giving so much to the company.

Lori Richardson [00:09:43]:

So shout out to Dan Goodman as well. And there are many more, but I think these are good examples. And my my plan through this year with women's sales pros is to shine a light on more male allies and more, male leaders who are really focusing on building their teams that are more inclusive and, and 6 and are very successful. So if anybody listening has a story about a male ally, please send them my way, and I I would love to see that. So so, Janice, how can someone be a better ally? Do you do you have a couple of tips or ideas?

Janice B Gordon [00:10:27]:

Well, we should also mention our our good friend who wrote the the book Women in Tech, a book for the guys. So Ava Hellen said, you know, there are excellent strategies in the book Andy it's all about allyship Andy helping women in sales to identify the different personalities and profiles of their male managers so that they can better manage up, but also for the the men that are managing women to where they're at Andy how they can grade up as well. So it gives real actionable, strategies, based on really good good research. So I from what what you said, Helen, in terms of your experience, I'd like to mention mentorship Andy the difference between mentorship and sponsorship or champion. And really being intentional when you're in an environment where you can identify not only internal but external mentors to help you to grade up to the position where you want to be. So they're mentoring you Andy tell and helping you to develop the skills you need to move on to the next level or to access a net, a next channel. And then sponsorship is very much about all the champions, very much the people that are talking you up while you're not in the room. So you've got to be very intentional about where are the gaps that you need to fill Andy who are the right mentors and support system in order to move where you want to go.

Janice B Gordon [00:12:15]:

But also, who is in the rooms that when you're not, and how you can get them on on board. But I think another thing is actually recognizing when there is an ally in the meeting, in the organization. Because allies don't always know that they're allies. They don't recognize it. They may say something, but they don't know at what point had an impact on you that made you feel different. So I think it's really good for us to be intentional about telling allies they were an ally in that meeting, when they supported you, what they did, so that they can recognize that behavior and do it again.

Lori Richardson [00:12:57]:

Good tip.

Janice B Gordon [00:12:57]:

So I think that's that's another area we need to be intentional, recognizing the allies, telling them exactly what they did, and the impact it had on you.

Helen Fanucci [00:13:07]:

Oh, that's really, really good because that you're right. I think, well, I think that many folks, many men were allies before that term became in vogue, and I've had examples where I've been included in conversations intentionally by male allies without without necessarily them recognize it. It was like the common sense thing to do perhaps because it was a area of accountability that I had, and they recognized, oh, Helen should be part of the conversation. And equally, I think it's so important for us as women in the workforce to bring in men to the conversation where it obviously makes sense and to collaborate more effectively. Because if you have a team with just women, they don't perform as well as a team that have a diverse women and men, a diverse Gray, or people of color. That's, you know, people with different kinds of thinking. So being intentional about building in teens with diverse thinking. And I think the lever point for this is really folks that are in a position to hire, new staff.

Helen Fanucci [00:14:24]:

And whether it's transferring in people from within Andy organization, a large company, or hiring from the outside. And so, for example, making sure if I'm the chief revenue officer and I'm the senior leader, that the managers under me hiring are looking at a diverse slate of candidates and not accepting the situation. Like, well, wait a minute. There aren't qualified women because we all know better and differently as an example. And so helping, connect leaders and managers to the talent pool is one way to, encourage and make that make it happen. And and I think many, men, in my experience, are very open to it. They just don't know where to go.

Lori Richardson [00:15:19]:

Yeah. Yeah. So personal thing, it just breaks my heart. Little pieces, when I see a woman leaving the sales profession. And I've seen some women leaving in in recent months, because they didn't feel comfortable in the environment they were in, which was a male majority environment, which had some amount of bad behavior Andy what, I guess, we could call microaggressions Gray little things, little thing here, little thing there. Finally, some of the women that I know that have left sales said, I'm just tired of it. You know, I'm just I'm done. I'm I'm not gonna be in that kind of a situation again.

Lori Richardson [00:16:04]:

What what can women do to really thrive in sales? And and I know for myself, I I thrived in sales. My attitude was, I'm a single parent supporting my family. There's no fail. It's all about thriving, you know, and it's all about just going bigger. So that was my mentality even at a very young age. And I I just wonder, what can we help women who are newer to sales, to what can we instill in them? What ideas can we give? And and I would say I'll I'll start it off by saying one idea I have is that if you want to go into leadership or management, be very clear about it with your, you know, whoever you report to. As soon as you want to, you don't have to wait months to to have your performance reflect on what a hard worker you are and how well you do it. This is something that men do all the Tim, is that very early on, they say, Janice, I really want your job one day.

Lori Richardson [00:17:07]:

What do I have to do to get there? And so they have a path, and they have a plan. Are there any other ideas? Let's start with you, Helen.

Helen Fanucci [00:17:16]:

You know, it's a double edged sword for me because tenacity and, you know, I too was a single mom raising kids, and sometimes I had to suck it up, so to speak, and just endure until I could navigate to a better role. I do think actually being clear about what your ambition is Andy that sometimes times falls on deaf ears and sometimes doesn't. You know, I've been overlooked for promotions Andy, you know, okay. That happens. And I've navigated to an to organizations that have been more, where I had more opportunity, frankly. So I think there is a Gray. It's not a up the corporate ladder. It's now it's more of a jungle gym navigating across and up and what have you.

Helen Fanucci [00:18:08]:

And sometimes you need to leave an organization or a company to be able to find a place where you're appreciated and not tall not just tolerated, but appreciated and celebrated. Laura, you have a fabulous quote in your book about that, which I Rob just botched, but it's something along those lines. Go where you're celebrated and not just tolerated. Yeah. Yeah.

Lori Richardson [00:18:33]:

Right.

Helen Fanucci [00:18:34]:

Because, you know, life and work so life is short. Work is so much a part of our, you know, our life that at some point, you've gotta ask yourself you know, have a heart to heart with yourself. Is this a place where I can thrive or not? And then, you know, build a network. That is so crucial. Have, folks that you can chat with, kinda a sounding board. When situations happen in my life. I'm talking to Lori Richardson all the time because, you know, I need that sounding board and encouragement Andy, so I those are the things that I would do. How about you, Janice?

Janice B Gordon [00:19:19]:

Hail the oracle, Laurie Richardson. Absolutely. There's not so much wisdom there. So oh, there. Hank Black is, echoing this as well. Wisdom, compassion. Hail, Lord. So, what I would say is absolutely value yourself first, Trust your instincts.

Janice B Gordon [00:19:46]:

You know, often we know that the environment isn't right for us, but we'll give them another chance, another chance. You know, at least for me, one's striking you out because in my I have learned that the only thing that gives is your confidence. If you're in a Gray in an environment that undermines you, that doesn't value you, then what happens? You're undermining your own confidence, which takes a long time to win back and build back. So I think you've got to fail fast, and failure is feedback. And the feedback you get from that environment that, you know, that your boss wasn't right, they undermined you, they didn't value you. The information you get from that means that in the next position you go to, you're able to use that information and interview your boss Andy interview your boss's boss. And there's gonna be the red flags that you saw in the previous environment that are coming up in that interview that's gonna tell you this is not the right environment for me. And if it's not the right for me, there is an environment out there that is right for you.

Janice B Gordon [00:20:57]:

But you've just got to value yourself first and trust your instincts Andy really kind of, like, hold out for the environment that is going to value you because you're gonna be able to excel and do everything, not only that your boss wants you to do, but what you want to do in the right environment. So value yourself first and trust your instincts.

Lori Richardson [00:21:20]:

Yeah. Oh, you said so many different things. I could I could go on and on, but I know in the interest of time, I I just wanna add to that. Something that leaders can do, male or female, is to make sure that the sales manager, the immediate supervisor, when women come into a sales role, so critical for their success and happiness. And what most of us many of us have gotten promoted because we did well in sales. We became a manager with no training or very little leadership training. And if I could just convey one thing, and and that is to not just try to make everyone like you were. If you're a manager, you need to be open to the fact that there are many different styles, many different ways to success, and and your all your reps need your support.

Lori Richardson [00:22:15]:

You can't just bail on them. You need to find ways to uniquely support each one. Almost like, I I think of sports teams and how all the players are different, but they bring their individuality Andy they bring their skills, to shine. So if if we can do anything, that could make some quick results, it would be to help train and coach the the first layer, first line management on on how to best work with a diverse population, and that will help support your inclusive sales team. So what what's one last thing? We we have time for just a couple more tips. Janice, you go first.

Janice B Gordon [00:23:04]:

Okay. So I'm reminded by the great saying by Madeleine Albright about a special place in hell, but I would like to just change it a little bit to there's a special place in purgatory for a woman that does not help other women. Purgatory, we can get out, we've been socialized, all of that. I'm gonna give you your one strike. Okay? But there is a special place in hell for men that do not support other women. We we're talking about allyship, so we need to include them in here.

Lori Richardson [00:23:36]:

Yeah. People love that.

Helen Fanucci [00:23:38]:

Yeah. So what I would say is, first of all, find out what each member of your team cares about, what their ambition is, whether it's promotion, you know, more money, etcetera, many things. And then support them in their in realizing their personal ambition, but also support them in ways that you can uniquely do as a manager, which is, for example, remove the friction that they have in their day to day sales life as an example, or use your, level and your network to help open doors, for them in sales or within the company from a networking point of view.

Lori Richardson [00:24:20]:

Fantastic. And, Janice, how can people find you?

Janice B Gordon [00:24:24]:

LinkedIn. Janice, don't forget my b, Janice b Gordon.

Lori Richardson [00:24:28]:

Janice b Gordon. And, you're all over the Internet. So let's start with LinkedIn and go from there. Fantastic. And Helen?

Helen Fanucci [00:24:37]:

LinkedIn, Helen Fanucci, pipeline power. Absolutely.

Lori Richardson [00:24:42]:

Yeah. Fantastic. And I am Laurie Richardson. I can be found through LinkedIn and a a number of other places, on, on the the interwebs. And we this is so great. I mean, we have so many more things we could talk about. I hope we can do this again soon because, it's very important, and people need tips and ideas. I'd also say go to LinkedIn and read about what other women are doing Andy read about sales role Andy share your own story because it's so important.

Lori Richardson [00:25:15]:

Thank you both so much. Helen Fanucci, author of Love Your Team and founder of Pipeline Power dotai, Janice Gordon, Janice b Gordon, customer growth expert, founder of Scale Your Sales. Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

Helen Fanucci [00:25:33]:

Thanks, Laurie.

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